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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Slippery Sam » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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onlion
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Can anyone recommend books, dvds or lecture notes taht discuss new techniques to do with this versatile gimmick?
zombieboy
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Nate Kranzo has a routine with it on his Visual Voodoo DVD.
Nathan Kranzo
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Thanks Zombie Boy,

The exact term isn't Slippery Sam. I was guilty of calling it that myself at one time, but it was produced long before it was marketed as a Slippery Sam gimmick. It's better to call it the "Modified Gaff" as it was first referred to as. It's more politically correct.

I have several routines with the gimmick, but my favorite is the Melting Coin routine.

Thanks,

Nathan

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Mike Wild
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It's a great gimmick. While I can't provide any sources off the the top of my head, my second manuscript is due to be released next month. It deals exclusively with a gimmick that is similar in concept, the Sun & Moon gaff set. All the routines on it would work equally well for the Slippery Sam or Modified Gaff, whichever terminology you prefer to use.

PM me if you'd like any additional info.

Best,

Mike
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Dan Watkins
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Hey Nathan,

I am curious about the history - where was it first referred to as "Modified Gaff"?
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Craig Matsuoka
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Dan,

Karl Fulves claimed credit for it in Pallbearers Review. Back then, he wasn't certain if anyone came up with it before, and invited his readers to correct him if they knew of earlier sources.

He referred to it as "a modified shell" in an editor's note, suggesting it as an alternate method for the trick "Polaroid Problem" (see Pallbearers Review, June 1973, page 633). In that trick, it was used to switch tiny pieces of paper.

He later named the gimmick "Half Shell" in the April 1974 issue (page 727). There, it was applied to an Okito box sequence.

Craig
mystre71
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Eric Decamps, has a routine "Slip-Away Coins" in his book "Compositions of Conjuring" which makes use of the Slippery Sam gaff.


Best
Joe
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Steve Dusheck
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I created the gimmick in question. I called it a sliding shell. It is listed on my 1965 magic list. It was used as a copper/ silver transposition. The first magician to order it was J. G. Thompson, Jr. I sold it and showed it to many other magicians. I gave Eddie Gibson permission to make a magnetic version and wrote the instructions for it in 1973. My gimmick was described by Fulves but he had no idea how to make it and did not tell readers how to cut the coin. The tricks he described using it did not really need my ghimmick. Only the trick called slippery silver used the sliding gimmick but that was published after Tannen's were selling Slippery Sam.
Nate Kranzo wanted my permission to have someone make my sliding gimmick for a trick he created using my idea. I would not give him permission and explained why. So now he is claiming I did not invent the trick. If I didn't invent it he didn't take it without my permission.
Steve Dusheck
Nathan Kranzo
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LOL!!!

I never wanted your permission for anything. I have not created any "trick" that is yours, nor have I published any of your "tricks".

I did publish a routine with sliding shell gimmick, but totally different from your copper/silver transposition. I do not deny that you marketed an effect with the sliding shell gimmick for a copper/silver routine. I now, because I bought two.

BUT, I was under the impression that the idea of the gaff was much older than you. In Discovery Of Witchcraft (first issued in 1584 and reprinted a number of times in the 17th century) there is an effect where a shell slides off of a coin that is held with wax. This was pointed out to me by Richard Kaufman.

Do you have a reference for the 1965 routine which you mention? I would love to know more about the history. And also, was your name mentioned in the Fulves write up?

Any info, and/or printed record would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Nathan
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Craig Matsuoka
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Nathan,

If you’re referring to the trick in chapter XXIV “…to transforme a counter to a groat”, then you would be making a grossly inappropriate comparison. You might as well credit Alexander Graham Bell for inventing the cell phone.

Those who take the time to actually look up the “Discoverie” reference will be rewarded with a clear picture of what Scot was really describing.

Quote:

A notable tricke to transforme a counter to a groat.

Take a groat, or some lesse péece of monie, and grind it verie thin at the one side; and take two counters, and grind them, the one at the one side, the other on the other side: glein (i.e. glue) the smooth side of the groat to the smooth side of one of the counters, joining them so close together as may be, speciallie at the edges, which may be so filed, as they shall séeme to be but one péece; to wit, one side a counter, and the other side a groat. Then take a verie little gréene ware (i.e. sealing wax)…and laie it so upon the smooth side of the other counter, as it doo not much discolour the groat: and so will that counter with the groat cleave together, as though they were glewed; and being filed even with the groat and the other counter, it will seeme so like a perfect entire counter, that though a stranger handle it, he shall not be wraie it; then haning a little touched your forefinger, and the thombe of your right hand with soft ware, take therewith this counterfeit counter, and laie it downe openlie upon the palme of your left hand, in such fort as an auditor laieth downe his counters, wringing the same hard, so as you may leave the glewed counter with the groat apparentlie in the palme of your lest hand; and the smooth side of the wared counter will sticke fast upon your thombe, by reason of the war wherwith it is smeered, and so may you hide it at your pleasure. Provided alwaies, that you late the wared side downe ward, and the glewed side upward: then close your hand, and in or after the closing there of turne the peece, & so in stead of a counter (which they suppose to be in your hand) you shall seeme to have a groat, to the astonishment of the beholders, if it be well handled.


It is easy to perceive the makings of a “copper/silver” gaff here, and (with a little more effort) the germ of a “shell coin” principle. However, it would be stretching definitions beyond all points of failure to claim that this rudimentary idea comes anywhere near to describing the unique properties and physical characteristics of Dusheck’s “Sliding Shell”. Anyone familiar with the gaff will see the absurdity of such a comparison.

Scot wasn’t even describing a “modern” shell per se. It wasn’t hollow. He was essentially describing a wafer thin disc that could be stacked atop another disc. It was only a “shell” in the sense that it covered something else.

“Waxed double” cards do the same thing. Do we even need to mention the fact that they are also slid apart?

Dusheck’s gaff is not simply a layer sliding over another layer.

BTW, as Steve already mentioned, Fulves printed another trick using the gaff in Close-Up Folio #5 called "Slippery Silver" by Bob Elliott (see PR, page 935). He did not credit Steve Dusheck in that article or any of the others I cited in my previous post.

Craig
mattisdx
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What's the main purpose for the slippery sam gimmick ?
Dan Watkins
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Depending on the application, it is used to make a color change if the gimmick is a different color from the coin, or to create a vanish or production of a coin if the gimmick is the same color as the coin.
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Jonathan Townsend
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The half rimmed ], magnetic or not has applications where one wants to slide the ] instead of lift it.

From multiplying billiards type applications, to color changes, it has its uses.

* yes, it has been tried in context of the Ramsay tricks. I shied away from it for 'appearance' mechanics as it felt 'clever' instead of magical to those I asked for feedback.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Nathan Kranzo
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Hi Craig,

Thanks for all your help in making the Discoverie of Witchcraft clear. IT's obviously ENTIRELY different. LOL! Give me a break.

SO basically Fulves didn't mention Dusheck....hmmm interesting, maybe there is a reason. AND nobody has come forward with any printed record yet. Oh I forgot about the "1965 Magic List". Whatever that means.

I'm still waiting...

Have a great day!

Nathan

P.S. IF you have any more insight, or info, drop me a personal e-mail at mail@nathankranzo.com
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chichi711
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Nathan

It is good to see you fire back. Most people just ignore (that bugs me).

Keep up the good work! I am looking forward to another Kranzo DVD.
Curtis Kam
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Bravo, Craig.

Funny how I see you more here on the Café than around town. How big an island is it, anyways?

Your analysis here regarding whether the "Slippery Sam" is in "Discoverie" is spot on. I also agree with the general proposition that Steve Dusheck's contributions to magic have been unfairly ignored. While Mr. Dusheck could have stepped up to provide the same analysis, I find it redeeming that he did not have to. There is great comfort in knowing that there are others who know the truth when they see it, and are willing and able to say so.

Imua, Brah.
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Jonathan Townsend
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Um folks... did anyone notice how closely the gaff resembles the sun/moon coin set?

Has anyone asked Steve to make a slippery sun/moon coin?

Great to see Steve posting on the Café. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Stuart Hooper
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Oh and, Jonathan, yes, actually, I asked about combining the two gimmicks...however I didn't go through with it when I realized that I didn't know enough about the history/applications/origins of the gaffs, AND one brilliant fellow from New York taught me that I didn't need the gaffs. Smile
johnny jones
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Hi Nate! Do you do a copper/silver transposition with the Modified Gaff? Or just productions and vanishes with this gaff? I think somebody is very confused. I never saw you perform anything that even remotely resembled steve's original routine/s. I could be wrong though.

Either way, my old fashioned way of thinking is...a gaff is a gaff is a gaff. If the gaff has been around for years, certainly new magicians are going to keep coming up with new and totally different material using that gaff, provided it is versatile enough. They may modify the design of the gaff. They may improve the methods and effects along the way. We see this happening everyday in magic.

As I recall, Preseley Guitar had made the c/s transpo type modified gaff many years ago, I think I still have one in a drawer somewhere. Did he not fall under steve's good graces either? I think Preseley had a routine for his gaff too, but I don't have it, only the coins.

I think Nate Kranzo is highly respectful to other magicians and probably goes out of his way to give credit where credit is due. I have seen him asking for credits on other boards numerous times. He seems very well read and knowledgeable, I think one of the most creative guys in magic today. Keep up the great work Nate!! Your routines are always fun and refreshing.

JJ
mattisdx
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Darn, that's 1 thing I've never heard of that sounds pretty sweet Smile
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