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Nathan Kranzo
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Chichi711, and Johny Jones,

Thanks for the kind words!

Still no printed record....

The last thing I have to say on this topic is get my routine and decide for yourself.

http://www.nathankranzo.com/merchandise.html
See Visual Voodoo DVD "Melting Coins" Routine.

All the best,

Nathan
check out MINDZILLA VOL. 2!!! Brand New Effects. Instant Downloads. Watch Demo Videos. Click below!!!

KranzoMagic.com
watchdog
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From my understanding the gaff in question IS NOT Dushek's. It goes back to even before Guitar. That is, the IDEA of the gaff. Guitar, to my understanding was the first to manufacture and then do anything with the gaff. The Modified gaff has been around for along time indeed. Dushek made it popular when he came out with his routine, nothing more.

So I'm to understand adding a backstop or edges to a gaff is a completly new and innovative idea? The description in 'Discoverie' describes EXACTLY the job of a shell, even a sliding one. So it didn't have edges or a backstop, big deal! You cannot tell me that those "improvements" make a completly new gaff. It is a variation nothing more. The idea is what's important. A shell is a shell is a sliding shell is a waxed cover.

In closing I believe Dushek did create the gaff in question. I also believe that many have "created" moves, gaffs and other sundry devices used in magic. Maybe they weren't the first but can you say honestly they didn't create them?

Nothing ladies and gentlemen is new, variations on a theme is the coda here. A brand new effect? Hardly. A new presentation or a modification of a routine or gaff perhaps. However an entirely brand new, never before concieved effect? Very, very unlikely.

I'm like Nathan, If Steve can prove his claim then I'll apologize to him. First though you have prove to me that I'm wrong.
Mike Wild
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RE: "Um folks... did anyone notice how closely the gaff resembles the sun/moon coin set?"

yes... I did, a very long time ago... and mentioned it here a few days ago, up above somewhere. I tend to lean toward the Sun & Moon gaff for a few reasons, not the least of which is my assertion that lay persons, who have heard of or know about gaff coins, ]'s, S&S, etc., are a lot less likely to suspect the copper coin as the culprit, since most, if any gaffs they have seen, heard of, know about... involve the half dollar, and not the odd looking British coin. I find this to be true in the US anyway.

I do many C/S routines using the Sun & Moon in place of other, more common gaffs, and love to hand out the half at the end for inspection... gives me time to ditch and switch the S&M Smile

Best,

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
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Re: Nothing ladies and gentlemen is new, variations on a theme is the coda here. A brand new effect? Hardly. A new presentation or a modification of a routine or gaff perhaps. However an entirely brand new, never before concieved effect? Very, very unlikely.

You are almost correct. You may find nothing new, and have nothing new to offer. Perhaps someday if you change your philosophy you may also get access to new stuff. Till then you can work with the crumbs left by others.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Stuart Hooper
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Mithrandir
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Mr Kranzo just suggested to me in a PM that I am a coward for posting under this name, so, to straiten things out:

My Name is Stuart Hooper, I am about to be 18 years old, and I currently live in the republic of Panama.
Justin Hart
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Interesting indeed. Jon, thank you for that perspective, in magic all I've heard about creation is that everything is already invented. I don't think so personally and you are the proof.

So after all of this, is it safe to say that I don't have to buy a slippery sam if I have a S&M coin? I'm not into the gaff coin work because my E.G. work takes too much time out lately. Smile
Craig Matsuoka
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Quote:
So I'm to understand adding a backstop or edges to a gaff is a completly new and innovative idea? The description in 'Discoverie' describes EXACTLY the job of a shell, even a sliding one. So it didn't have edges or a backstop, big deal!


Are you seriously implying that a thin copper disc sitting on top of a silver coin can be displayed from the same angles as a modern shell? That’s wonderful! Please tip your work. That way, we can stop throwing our money away on expensive Lassens.

Quote:
You cannot tell me that those "improvements" make a completly new gaff. It is a variation nothing more.


I would suggest that variation exists in degrees. If the modified shell is a variant, it is a significant one. There are things it can do that a simple disc cannot.

Quote:
The idea is what's important.


Agreed.

Quote:
A shell is a shell is a sliding shell is a waxed cover.


I’m really glad to hear you say that because I’ve got 500 pennies languishing in my change jar. Wanna trade them for 500 of your quarters? After all, a coin is a coin is a coin with George Washington on it.

Quote:
In closing I believe Dushek did create the gaff in question. I also believe that many have "created" moves, gaffs and other sundry devices used in magic. Maybe they weren't the first but can you say honestly they didn't create them?


I believe it was a mistake for me to post in this thread. What a mess. In any case, I believe I will wait for more evidence to be presented in this matter. I also believe there is no question that creation occurs; independent creation even more so. At the same time, I also believe that tracing the developmental history of something is not as futile as some might think. Most of the time, the records are there, be it written or oral. We just have to make an effort to find them.

Quote:
Nothing ladies and gentlemen is new, variations on a theme is the coda here. A brand new effect? Hardly. A new presentation or a modification of a routine or gaff perhaps. However an entirely brand new, never before concieved effect? Very, very unlikely.


Nothing new? It’s a good thing the Patent Office doesn’t share that view. Otherwise, nothing would ever receive a patent. Rejecting an endless flow of “variations” sure would make their jobs a lot easier though, wouldn’t it?

Quote:
I'm like Nathan, If Steve can prove his claim then I'll apologize to him. First though you have prove to me that I'm wrong.


If Steve (or someone else) submits the evidence you want, then what? Will you extend Steve the same courtesy? I think it’s only fair that you, in turn, offer convincing evidence that the idea predates both Dusheck and Guitar. Until you can, it would be prudent to not imply that Dusheck is overreacting.
watchdog
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I'm not claiming originality for a gafff that existed already Craig. Steve is. The burden of proof lies with him. I have correspondence with Presley that points to the existence of the gaff long before "Slippery Sam".
Granted the information I'm privy to is not published and I understand we go by the printed record. I will agree that Steve has given many things to magic. Unfortunately I don't believe this is one of them. I think it is important to note I never said the gaffs with improvements were worthless just that they were variations and nothing more.

Did Alexander Bell invent the cell phone? Nope. Did he invent the telephone? Nope, wrong again. Did he invent the idea? No not even close. The idea was in place long before the technology was there. Please get your history correct before you start comparing things.
The telephone existed because someone wanted to make long distance communication faster. The idea of communicating over long distances has been around a very long time.

Trading your pennies for my quarters is ridiculous at best and a horrible analogy. You are comparing something of standardized value, that is it's generally accepted a quarter is worth more than a penny, to something that has a perceived value.
Yes it can be argued that the value of money is only perceived and if that perception or confidence were altered the value would decrease. But I'm not arguing economics here. The IDEA of the two items being compared is different therefore irrelevant.

Jon while I certainly respect your work I think you are the one who was almost correct. We as magicians develop ideas and effects that defy the laws of physics. There are not an infinte number of these laws just floating around waiting to be discovered and broken. You can take any magic (not mentalism)effect and break it down into one of a few simple categories.

I ran through a few books this morning and was having a hard time finding more than four or five different types of effects. All variations of a theme. Do they have value. Of course. Are they new and different? No again. Does that realization stop me from creating? No. Does it hinder me from looking? Absolutley not. I dream up things all the time. Sometimes the technology is there to support the idea. Sometimes I am resigned to hope that within my lifetime I'll be able to realize my visions.
Steve Dusheck
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Unless you are old enough to have seen me at a magic convention and seen my line of magic advertised and reviewed in magic magazines you know nothing about me. I found that I had a knack for creating and improving magic tricks. I tried to give them to magic dealers to make just so I could have my name in the magic catalogs. When no one wanted them I started to make them and go to local magic conventions.
The secret to my early success was that the magic I was selling was new and different. I did not sell the standard magic that all the others dealers sold and I always had something new. Since I was only known locally, many of my early effects were copied by dealers that I thought were my friends.
Machined coins intrigued me. I could not get a machinist to make them for me. I tried to give my ideas away but the machinists didn't want them. My dad was not a machinist but bought a used lathe at one time. He came up with a way to hold the coins and we taught ourselves how to make special coins.
On of the first machined coins I made was a sliding shell E. penny. Another unique coin was my Expanded Dime. The dime fit over a shell penny so the effect was a dime to penny to dime and the magician never touche the coins. The gimmicked dime was also shimmed. I made at least one new gimmicked coin every weekend.
In the 1960s there was no Internet. Magicians would write requesting a catalog of magic list. I really did not have need for a magic list as I only gave them out at the Allentown, PA Magic Convention but a friend of mine worked where he could make copies using a blue print machine. My Copper/Silver Transpo using my sliding shell was advertised in that list. My 1966 update/list had a C/S routine using 2 gimmicked coins and my 1967 list had a third C/S routine which is Slippery Sam but Gibson gave it that name later. I have copies of these old lists.
Every magician I did my Copper/Silver routine for was fooled and most bought one. I have no idea if the magicians at the convention were from MD, NY, NJ, PA or another state because there were usually 1,000 people there. I was an unknown and easy to copy from.
I always got a crowd at Tannen's Jubilee when I would show off my latest gimmicked coins. Once again I was easy pickings for the dealers. It's sort of funny because I would have given them the tricks to make. They didn't have to copy them.
I met Phil Goldstein at Tannen's Jubilee and he saw many of my tricks including my sliding shell. he also got one of my limited edition Coin & Cord routines. The following year he brought Hank Lee to my booth. Hank placed a big order. He gave me my big break. He advertised my Copper/Silver Transpo before it was in pallbearers review.
The deal with Gibson was more complex because I gave him 5 or 6 tricks in 1972. He put out Slippery Sam in 1974 and Tannen's were the first to have it. Gibson's instructions are copyrighted 1974.
In all the years I have been selling my effect and with all the reviews it received in magic magazines it is only now that magicians are claiming that my gimmick is not original and that I did not create it.
If you know the magic I put out and especially the many machined coins I created it certainly doesn't seem likely that I would claim to have invented something I didn't.
This type of hassle is why I no longer put out any new effects. I almost gave in. A magician you all admire and respect asked me to make a DVD showing the 100+ gimmicked coin effects I created. I thought it would be my last hurrah! But then I realized I would only be giving others new tricks to make.
I have reached the age when most of my good friends and customers have died. They knew me and my magic. I'm glad some of you came to my aid.
Best wishes,
Steve
Steve Dusheck
Paul Chosse
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Pressley Guitar gave me my first "Sliding Shell" at a convention in Boston in 1968. I returned it when he tried to tell me he "invented" it. It was on my "wish list" since I had already seen one at Carl Bertolino's magic store on Tremont st. in downtown Boston a year earlier. It carried Dusheck's name...

Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
Curtis Kam
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same as you, plus 3 and enough to make
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Thank you, Paul, I think that ties this one up quite nicely.
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Tiki
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Selfishly, I would like to see Mr. Dusheck release a DVD. In addition to my own interest in his ideas and his contributions to coin magic, I think such a DVD would document what many of us already know: that Steve Dusheck is one of the most creative and prolific inventors of magic alive today.

Mr. Dusheck, I am sure I am not alone when I ask you to reconsider your decision about the DVD. I certainly respect your decision and understand the basis for it, but I sure would like to see that DVD!

Cheers,

Tiki
Dan LeFay
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Mr. Dusheck,

It pains me to see how a truly creative spirit in magic has to defend himself for the mass consumptive community we've become. Alas...

Your personal story and reaction(s) are much appreciated!
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths,
that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes,
and forgot."
Neil Gaiman
Tom G
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I'm pretty sure I have the routine and coin released by Steve from years ago. Still in the original bag.
Tom
B-MAN
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Can some one explaine why Mr. Dusheck is listed as a new user and not a V.I.P ? I have really enjoyed his books.
" No matter what you accomplish in this life.... the size of your funeral will be determinded by the weather " Gizzard

G.B.T.S.
Larry Davidson
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I worked in a magic shop in the 70's, saw Steve lecture, and sold as well as bought many of his effects. Steve had a genius for creating.
mike gallo
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Steve had a genius for creating.

I'm certain he still does! It's a shame he has stopped sharing his "thoughts" with us...but his reasons are understandable.

Mike
JeffTell
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Maybe he is just not open to the internet/mass market? Perhaps he is approachable in person.

I saw someone do one of his new tricks at a convention.
Mike Wild
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Steve seems to me to be open to the internet thing. I don't think his reasons for keeping some of his ideas to himself are based upon the distribution method employed.

I'm just glad that I was here to read what he had to say when he wrote it!

Best,

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Justin Hart
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Now what?
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