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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3359 Posts 
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When we say Criss or David B. are bad, what exactly does that mean? I haven't seen either show, so I don't know. Is it the material, the delivery, or something else?
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "If I were to do an illusion show" |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22682 Posts
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I just say they’re not for me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 984 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2025, George Ledo wrote: That sentence doesn't make sense. It seems to imply that there are people in the world that doesn't like Criss Angel. |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5401 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2025, George Ledo wrote: Generally speaking, it means that the show does not meet the expectations of the person labeling it as “bad”. The two shows have had lengthy runs, so they certainly have their audience which supports them. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3699 Posts
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I wouldn’t buy a ticket to see Criss Angel and its not because of his magic, I’ve never really seen the magic other than a spot or two on TV. That doesn’t mean he is bad, he is still in business so he must be doing something right for some folks. He just doesn’t seem to attract a wide audience like some stars in magic do. But now I probably would go see David B, I think I’ve watched most of his specials and he comes across as a likable person. Talent is not everything when it comes to me choosing who I support in magic, or any other type of performance.
Tom
"Without sales, a business is just an expensive hobby"
The Daycare Magician Book https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/str/bolewarebargains |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 3071 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 23, 2025, Fedora wrote: I don't like Criss Angel.
"When you punish a person for dreaming their dreams,
don't expect them to thank or forgive you." The Mountain Goats; "The Best Ever Death Metal Band Out of Denton" |
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Fedora Special user Arizona, usa 984 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 24, 2025, ed rhodes wrote: https://youtu.be/yVFt0szaX_8?si=b5S0wcJ1jESNcTd7 |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 3071 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 25, 2025, Fedora wrote: Yes. Yes it is. I think Mr. Angel is very talented. He clearly knows far more about magic than me. But I don't LIKE him as a performer, and I couldn't sit through one of his shows.
"When you punish a person for dreaming their dreams,
don't expect them to thank or forgive you." The Mountain Goats; "The Best Ever Death Metal Band Out of Denton" |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2425 Posts
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Some like vanilla, some like chocolate, but a very reliable indicator of who is good or bad for magic is how much money one commands per performance. The consumer is the ultimate judge.
With that yard stick, is there any question that David Copperfield has done more to promote an interest in magic than anyone in the last 50 years? David Blaine and Cris Angle haven’t done too bad either. Magicians that are ‘bad’ for magic don’t last very long. Whether is through google reviews or word of mouth, the consumer will always decide who is good or bad for magic.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3699 Posts
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Ken, I completely agree. The customer is always the boss regardless of what business you’re in.
Those understanding it's a ‘peoples’ business and not just an ‘entertainment’ business will always do much better. Tom
"Without sales, a business is just an expensive hobby"
The Daycare Magician Book https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/str/bolewarebargains |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 3071 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 26, 2025, Ken Northridge wrote: I don't know if he made the most money, but I believe the person who did the most to promote an interest in magic as a modern performance art, was Doug Henning.
"When you punish a person for dreaming their dreams,
don't expect them to thank or forgive you." The Mountain Goats; "The Best Ever Death Metal Band Out of Denton" |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 11065 Posts
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That was 50 years ago! There have been quite a few much more than that since then.
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 3071 Posts
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Yes, but I believe MOST of it is minor changes compared to the quantum level change Doug took magic to.
"When you punish a person for dreaming their dreams,
don't expect them to thank or forgive you." The Mountain Goats; "The Best Ever Death Metal Band Out of Denton" |
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smithart Special user Texas 800 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 28, 2025, ed rhodes wrote: It's been done before, but I think it would be interesting to try to identify those who made watershed changes to magic, primarily as perceived by the general public. I would definitely put Doug Henning on that list, as well as David Copperfield. Do Penn and Teller fit? I think it's hard to deny the amount of influence they've had over their careers, but it seemed to me like a slow burn. I don't remember a lot of people emulating them when they showed up, and even now I'm not sure they fit what most people visualize as a magician. On the other hand, David Blaine did inspire a new generation of street magicians.
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3359 Posts
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Just to make sure I'm clear, are you looking for those who:
1. Increased the general public's interest in watching magic as entertainment, or 2. Increased the general public's interest in getting involved in magic (as a hobby?), or 3. Showed those already interested or involved in magic that there are "other approaches," or 4. Inspired others to imitate them, or 5. Something else. Thanks. I have a few comments about your post, but want to make sure I'm on the same page.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "If I were to do an illusion show" |
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smithart Special user Texas 800 Posts
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Quote:
On May 1, 2025, George Ledo wrote: Although I think "watershed" performers do both of the above, I see that as a side-effect rather than the main point. Quote:
3. Showed those already interested or involved in magic that there are "other approaches," or Watershed performers open up other performers to alternative ways to present magic. Some direct imitation is expected, because of a lack of creativity, but it's mostly about breaking the mold in some way. Quote:
5. Something else. If I were to try to boil it down, I would say that with watershed performers, both magicians and the general public realize that magic has changed, which drives both interest from the public and innovation from other magicians. (Both/And)
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3699 Posts
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I was always a big fan of Doug Henning, but just to add a few thoughts, let’s not forget that in the 1960s Mark Wilson had a well-known television show "The Magic Land of Allakazam" and I believe it was the first network television show dedicated to magic and ran for a significant period, exposing a vast audience to the art form. Also, as for as creating new hobbyists and professionals, Mark and his book "Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic" has probably helped inspire and equip more people to begin their journey into magic than any other individual.
Still, I would have to give Doug Henning my vote for being the most known in the 70's. Copperfield in the 80's and even still on top today. Tom
"Without sales, a business is just an expensive hobby"
The Daycare Magician Book https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/str/bolewarebargains |
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smithart Special user Texas 800 Posts
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Quote:
On May 1, 2025, TomBoleware wrote: Thanks, Tom. I'm from the Dallas area, so I will never forget Mark Wilson. He had a local show before he went national. He was a great magician and was often innovative. If he was a watershed magician, it's because he showed that television magic shows could be successful. But he was a classic magician and did more to encourage (or even establish) the classic view than to change it. But I love Mark Wilson and would love to hear arguments to the contrary.
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 3071 Posts
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Understand, I loved Mark Wilson! He WAS "my" magician. However, while he showed how to use a "new medium" to PRESENT magic, the magic he presented was very traditional.
"When you punish a person for dreaming their dreams,
don't expect them to thank or forgive you." The Mountain Goats; "The Best Ever Death Metal Band Out of Denton" |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3699 Posts
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Smithart, I can remember ordering items from a Douglas Magicland magic catalog and I’m pretty sure it was out of Dallas. Do you remember if Mark was associated with it or not? Maybe he worked there at one time? I met him in the 90’s at a Las Vegas convention, a really nice person, and maybe he mentioned it there, but I can’t remember if he did or not. I just know I’ve heard that he did.
Very True Ed. Doug with his hippie look did introduce a new look and style to magic. I actually had an older guy, about my age and just recently, ask about the long-haired hippie guy that did magic on TV a long time ago. He couldn’t remember the name, but I knew he was talking about Doug. Tom
"Without sales, a business is just an expensive hobby"
The Daycare Magician Book https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ eBay Store: https://www.ebay.com/str/bolewarebargains |
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Posted: Apr 23, 2025 01:53 pm 
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