OK lets talk about Guerrilla Marketing, and how or IF it can help the entertainment business, specifically magical performance.

To do this the first important thing to do is to define the terms, and then the term they make up. What exactly is marketing in the first place? What does it accomplish? What is marketing for an entertainment business? First an understanding of this is needed prior to getting into "Guerrilla Marketing".

So before getting caught up in definitions, it is probably more important to know what you personally are trying to accomplish with the activity. Is it a sale that you are looking for or customer engagement and brand identity? Too many think of marketing as a way to drive sales and look for their marketing budget to sell tickets. If that is your goal, then sales is the point. Marketing tends to be a bigger picture of customer engagement and satisfaction.

Marketing tends to help with how you are perceived as a company by the public. It tends to engage the customer so you can interact with them and unveil and satisfy their wants needs and desires. It has to do with the customers overall perception of an experience. There are a lot of definitions of marketing itself and the definition has evolved over the years. For the purpose of this thread lets keep it to this definition.

It is NOT sales and it is CERTAINLY NOT promotions. We don't want to discuss promotional ideas here. Marketing and promotions work hand in hand, but are in no way the exact same thing so lets leave off ideas of "I did this promotion and won whatever what not". Lets think of it as more of creating awareness and branding than sales. This way we are all on the same page thinking the same thing.

Guerrilla is a term used to describe underfunded sort of revolutionary groups. They developed tactics they could afford with being under funded and under equipped. (It has nothing to do with large Rainforest dwelling creatures.) If Gorilla Marketing is a sort of marketing, that is not what is being discussed here and that will be off topic so lets avoid it so it is not confusing.

So how does that relate to marketing at all? Well many smaller companies, even mid sized companies are underfunded when it comes to marketing budget. But you can use unusual tactics in order to get as good or better results. But you have to keep the end goal in mind. With less funds it is even MORE important to be able to create a campaign that will engage for a long time the customer once they are found. It is not about people finding you. It is about people staying with you once they have found you. Fortunately in todays day and age people WANT to engage more with things they like. This is an advantage.

Think Flash Mobs. The unsuspecting public ends up seeing a spectacularly choreographed and produced mini show. It happens around them literally. It is completely immersive! They don't become useful until they somehow get you to engage in the product. Doing a mini show to create fun means nothing if you have not engaged the customer in a meaningful way. They have to be able to get people not only engaging with the company, but telling others to engage with them as well.

Do escapes qualify? Well maybe. When Houdini did them back in the day they certainly were. He created enough buzz to literally become the most famous person on the planet! He certainly got people to engage and he was able to promote his brand effectively. So much so that he is talked about today. His escapes from prison and such were very effective. Are they effective the way they are done today? I have yet to see one that is, and certainly not as effective as Houdini.

Doing the hypnosis show back in the 1950's or so they did what was called a "Window Sleep". This was when a department store would have a woman hypnotized and placed on a mattress (Which they offered for sale.) in the window facing the sidewalk. She would be there for hours doing literally nothing but sleeping in the window. At an assigned time prior to show time an ambulance will show up and she will be taken to the show. Then the very first thing done is to pull up to the back of the theater, bring her in on a stretcher, and wake her up to start the show! Lights, sirens, police escort and the whole bit.

It still works to this day. With social media and instant coverage of EVERYTHING it can be even MORE effective. But if you are not doing a hypnosis show it is really tough to make the concept work. (Which is my point I guess.)

Is it "Guerrilla Marketing"? Probably. The idea would be to get people engaged with both the mattress store, that is hopefully having a sale on the mattress she is sleeping on, AND with the hypnotist himself. Also throw in someone who will sponsor the sheets she is sleeping on, the bedroom set that is used as decoration, the lighting used for the window and the paintings in the background and you have an opportunity to be able to do Guerrilla Marketing for a whole lot of people at one time. You can get people to engage with ALL of these instead of just having a woman who is sleeping in a window for 8 hours.

Having her sleep in the window for 8 hours is one thing. Getting them engaged with the outcome, and interacting with the other sponsors is the key. THAT is what makes it Guerrilla Marketing. For that matter it is what makes it marketing at all I think. Does it help with sales? Of course it will. But once engagement happens THAT is when the sales department takes over. Hopefully one also makes a deal with a local radio station or whatever social media platform king exists in the area to cover it. Hopefully one sells tickets to all the sponsors in batches. This and 1,000 other things happen in concert to make the event "Guerrilla". You can cover the nut on the show for the run by doing all this properly. Then ticket sales are 100% profit.

That is one example. There can be 100's of them. Does it help in entertainment? Well not just the event itself in reality and that is where most go very wrong. Look at what U2 did with the video for "Where the Streets Have no Name". Supposedly they get shut down on a rooftop concert. In that video they were HOPING to get shut down by the police! They did several songs, they did several takes of that specific song, were granted extensions and so forth. They kept going SO THEY WOULD get shut down. This was Guerrilla all by itself. THEN when the video came out, they edited it to make it look like they went ahead AFTER they were shut down! Brilliant. They were making claims about 35,000 showing up, and it was about 1,000. It was a fine example of Guerrilla Marketing for certain.

So absolutely it can translate to entertainment and in many ways it is easier to do so. It is just important to try to get misconceptions out of the conversations. Promotions are NOT GUERRILLA MARKETING. Lets not get caught up in thoughts of promotions. Promotions are a valid way of working but they are distinct and separate from marketing and especially from Guerrilla Marketing.

So lets discuss!

(Yes this is probably the longest post I have made, but I think this can be a great topic and the need for clarity exists.)

During the heydays of the Ghost shows, the ability to generate publicity in the newspapers and/or radio by having some of the 'creatures' wandering in highly public areas while putting up playbills, weeks ahead of the planned show dates. A day or two before the show date, other types of publicity stunts would be enlisted to help generate awareness and sales. Would this be considered Guerrilla Marketing?

It can certainly be part of an overall campaign yes.

Old school con men who made it rain or Soapy Smith would excite the crowd to con them.

This type of marketing is not specifically about which technique is used but how is it used and does it bind people to you and the brand. While telemarketing is pretty obvious what it is, this has a different goal. Cost effective ways to create awareness and loyalty is it in a nutshell. Today people really like to be brand loyal. Maybe that is changing I’m not certain.

The news cycle isn’t even 24 hours any more. While there are a lot of avenues FOR this route of marketing it is bad and good. Lots of diffusion happens so targeting is easier And harder. The key to the Facebook idea is to narrow the focus properly. You don’t want to get too 1,500,000 people when you’re really content with 100,000. Narrow the focus and have qualified eyes watching and the results are better.

So is this type of marketing better for an established brand or more useful for a brand that is newer and showing signs of growth?

"Better" really depends upon your goals right? I mean if you want to just create an awareness and that part of the campaign is not as concerned with retention or what not then maybe it doesn't matter to do Guerrilla Marketing. If you want to gain an impression, and engage and keep that person then Guerrilla Marketing might be the thing.

It depends on the end goal. You have to create X number of impressions prior to people even remembering who you are. Not all of those can be created through Guerrilla Marketing. Many can be as passive as a billboard, a hotel key, TV spot, news appearance and so forth. None of that is, or should be Guerrilla Marketing related.

Apple seems to use the tactic, but in reality it is not true at all. They DO have the loyalty thing going for sure. But they have a sophisticated marketing strategy. Their stores do create an experience so that is similar.

Coke uses Guerrilla Marketing as well as Samsung, Tesla and even IKEA. Red Bull gave free samples to college parties. The Discovery Channel placed boards that looked like they were bitten by guess what? To promote _____ Week. Fill in the blank with your guess.

The point is very large companies can and do use the tactics and use them often, yet not exclusively. My favorite I believe was Deadpool's Tinder Account.

Here this is great. https://camberlion.com/guerilla-marketing-examples/

You must remember most consumer level magicians (and many other performers) do not even have a brand.

I think it is important to distinguish what we mean when we say "entertainer" or "performer" here. As in Danny's case where he is performing at a venue the objective of marketing and promoting the show to sell tickets which is much different than the local performer (with the Default business model) that is just seeking to drum up some bookings. Yes, both are "entertainers" but two different objectives altogether. Most here, as we know, tend to be the latter.

People read and interpret these posts as they apply to themselves, often not as necessarily as intended bu the poster.

Yes I started to realize the difference in types of performers and markets even. Business to consumer markets and such.

That ALL comes into play, otherwise you just have a stunt with no point.

I get a bit murky with these distinctions. I know what I do, but not the overall concepts of how it relates to everyone else. If only there was a guy here who knew intricately and minutely what those concepts are…

And if someone promised not to poke fun at long posts…

I appreciate the knowledge and the time you set aside to share it. This is all new aspects and perspectives that are not taught in the books, clubs, or latest and greatest stores. Thank you.

Good overview, Danny, and if it's not your longest post, It's longest one I've read from you.

And I think MindPro's comment is absolutely foundational. You really can't market if you don't have a brand. (It doesn't have to be formal, but you have to understand what you are selling.)

The problem I have with all of these discussions is "where the rubber meets the road." Even if (abstractly) people understand and agree on what it takes to be successful in this space, most people have no idea how to turn that knowledge into something concrete -- something that will, for example, actually get them more bookings.

I think the most helpful thing we could do on this thread is talk through the thinking processes that actually lead to usable ideas, using the theory as an anchor. Does that make sense to anyone other than me?

One must be at the point of marketing before one just starts marketing. To be at the point of marketing you must first be market-ready. As a mentor, coach, consultant, trainer, and entertainment business specialist for four decades working with thousands of performers and entertainment business owners, I can honestly say that 98% of performers are not at this point and have never gotten to this point.

So then what happens is one of the biggest mistakes I see in entertainment business - that is when a performers thinks "Well, I have my show ready, so now it is time to start marketing." This is the biggest reason I see performers and entertainers (two different things) fail or quickly becomes stuck or stunned.

Its interesting that smithart used the word "foundational" as those regular to this forum know I have been preaching the extreme importance of creating the foundational component to your performing business BEFORE ever starting to create a show or anything to do with marketing. There is a whole chunk of things between having a show ready and beginning to market. If ALL of these things are not in place you will struggle, be on a continuous hamster wheel, or just plain fail.

I can usually tell this of a performer in the first 60 seconds of talking to them or from an initial post or explanation of their performance or business.

One thing not often mentioned or talked about (other in my own books, trainings, courses or resources) is the importance of learning and doing things in the right and proper sequential order.

Of course unfortunately magicians are the worst at this as there is no criteria, gatekeeper, or governing/accrediting body to police or govern this as with most other types of entertainers/performers.

Most start their entertainment business with no knowledge, experience, skills or formal education on starting and operating an entertainment business. I know years ago when I was just starting out I look endlessly for such content and material and found literally nothing. This of course is exactly why I decided I would create such content, material and resources for entertainers and entertainment businesses of all types.

This forum should be about just what you said (as it used to be) "where the rubber meets the road."

I think this thread can head in a very beneficial direction if not disrupted by those with agendas and set on rocking the apple cart as it usually does. Thanks for participating here smithart.

Oh of course. But first you have to know what the tool is you are trying to use. Guerrilla Marketing is the tool. Too many people only have a hammer, and think every problem is a nail.

Now that you know what the tool is, and how it needs to be used you can then decide if it is what you need to use to build. To ask about X-marketing and see if it works for X is ridiculous.

Can it be used to get more bookings? Sure probably. But it might just happen in the abstract. You may not be able to point to I did X Guerrilla Marketing thing and it gave me X bookings. It probably won't work like that. It will create awareness, it will engage with people and X will eventually happen. It is not like direct mail campaigns where you can track easily how it works. Most of marketing doesn't really work like that so much.

Can it work to get you more birthday parties? I guess it depends on what is done as a campaign. You have to first define who you are and what is trying to be accomplished.

To be clear, is there a difference between this and a PR stunt? Because the examples I've seen so far sound like PR stunts to me.

Pardon my ignorance. I know essentially nothing about this.

I understand what you are saying Danny, and I think I have at least some sense (and agreement) with your concerns. But what we're talking about doesn't have to be mechanical. I agree with Mindpro (and I know this is something you know) that if you don't know what your "product" is, you will waste a lot of time marketing the wrong thing. I don't think that means a formal vision statement, or a written strategy. But I do believe it requires some way of getting feedback on the effectiveness of your individual efforts (unless a performer just likes wasting time).

Looking at hammers, nails, or any other type of tool, would be premature if what you were trying to bake a cake, or create a marking system for playing cards. (Yes, I'm taking unfair advantage of your metaphor, but I think it's funny.)

(And remember, there's always a chance that I'm misreading and misunderstanding, so please correct if I missed the mark.)

A PR stunt can be part of the process.

Without knowing the end goal you are the very definition of cart before the horse. I agree.

I just now wandered into this thread by accident and wanted to mention a book I read several years ago, titled "Start With Why" by Simon Sinek. It's about how businesses succeed or fail based on how they present themselves, and especially if they know (and can make potential customers understand) why they do what they do. He mentions Apple and Nike among others.

It's a short book and a fast read, although the author does get a bit repetitive later on. He also did a Ted Talk a few years ago which pretty much summarizes the book in about fifteen minutes.

It is a brilliant question and translates to performance in many ways.

We produced a "Vocal Band" for a long time. The idea is the instrument sounds are made with their own voices. I would CONSTANTLY tell them (Yes almost constantly ask Mindpro how much I complained to him about it!) that they had to convey during their performance WHY they were there. What brought them to that room that night in the Dominican Republic singing these songs? I mean after about 3 songs the audience gets it. One guy is the drums, the other is the bass, another sings really high, this guy is funny, he sounds like a guitar. They get it. So AFTER 3 songs why are they sitting there watching? It HAS to amount to more than hoping they sing a song that the audience likes. What do I "discover" about you as a performer. How do I relate to YOU as an artist and why is that important? Without that information it is almost meaningless.

It is my problem with the VAST majority of magic performance. It is all about tricks and boxes and what not. It has almost nothing an audience can relate to in any way as to why they are watching other than to be fooled.

FWIW, I wrote a post in my column here about this, mentioning the book and some of my pet peeves about exactly what Danny just mentioned.

In case anyone's interested: https://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopi......orum=173

Thanks, George, I'll take a look.

I woke up with a bug up my rear end this morning, intending to write another post for my column here in the Cafe, but talked myself out of it during breakfast. So I'll just make this quick.

Danny, your post above about the band brings up some of what were talking about in "that other thread:" the lack of "celebrity magicians" who come across as real people, warts and all, and give us a chance to know who they are and hopefully why they do what they do. The vast majority of magic acts I've watched barely give us a chance to meet the performer. Some hardly acknowledge the audience, others talk at the audience, and others are totally caught up in themselves. So who are these people and why should we care about what they do?

The very very few times I've watched AGT, the hosts have asked the contestants a bit about themselves, a short introduction to the person. It makes total sense. Talk shows, daytime and late evening, are about the guests and what they're up to. I can't even imagine a talk show host having an actor come on, do a bit from their latest movie, and then go away. When Oprah had David Copperfield on her show long ago, when he was dating Claudia Schiffer, they didn't talk about his latest illusion: they talked about him and Claudia, the yacht he had bought, and other personal subjects. How often do we see this even with big-name magicians, never mind the ones who are working but are not as well-known?

How often do we see actors, actor couples, singers, musicians, sports figures, airhead celebrities, and others in the news or the tabloids? All the time. How often do we see magicians there? Hardly ever if ever.

If I have been inside a clamshell all this time and missed a lot of them, please correct me.

Ironically, back when I was gearing up and "paying my dues" and dreaming about going full-time (Vegas and touring), one of the things I considered was that I would have to become a public figure if I was going to be successful -- and I didn't want to become a public figure. That's a good chunk of why I decided I was more interested in the backstage end than the onstage end and chose to go into theatrical design.

Okay, this wasn't as quick as I hoped.