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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Want to see Fitch Kohler Holdout in action... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bob Kohler
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Greetings,
Actually the Fitch Kohler Professional Holdout System is still available on a limited basis. I'm expecting a batch of 20 units in about one week. When they arrive I'll list them as "in stock" on my website at http://www.bobkohlermagic.com.
www.bobkohlermagic.com

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Bill Palmer
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I perform banjo setup as a hobby. I don't get paid for it, but I know what I'm doing, and I purchase the best tools for the job.

I don't buy cheap wrenches or cheap files, because they don't last as long as good ones.

For example, the inexpensive tools made in some third world countries generally do not hold up as well as the tools from major tool manufacturers. So, I buy Crescent® sdjustable wrenches and similar quality hand tools.

Some of these inexpensive holdouts will work just fine, but they aren't as versatile as the one that the Bobs make. I haven't seen the Black Widow yet, so I won't pass judgment on it, even though I have been told by one dealer how they are made.

The Fitch-Kohler holdout really needs no justification. If you are part of the target group for which it is made, you will buy one. If not, you will purchase something else.

It's that way with everything from cups to cars. Most of us don't need a Ferrari, a Mercedes, a Beamer or a Rolls. But the people who own them like them. So who's to say that their manufacturers are ripping people off or that the customers are paying too much if they get what they feel they want and need?

I can do most of what ANY of your holdouts will do with a piece of parachute cord, a weight, a clothes pin, a leather watchband and a few other oddments. It won't cost me more than a buck or so. But it will eventually damage my clothing, mess up my wrist, and it won't be as instantly changeable as the Fitch-Kohler system.

I've seen some really funny things passed off as holdouts.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Dan Watkins
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Quote:
On 2006-08-28 07:36, Sean Macfarlane wrote:
I should also ask, if any Black Widow users have Fitch/Koher holdouts, and how they compare to each other.


Sean,

While I am not a user, I had the opportunity to see (and put on my arm and try out) a friend's Black Widow. I also first saw the FK Holdout system in 2002 when Kohler showed it to a group of people at LVMI along with a demo of some effects. I have also been able to see privately some of the unpublished mind blowing applications Bob uses it for when I stayed at his house when filming my DVD, Coin Man Walking.

So even though I don't perform with both of those holdouts, I am familiar with them on a technical level. They are completely different designs with completely different princples behind their mechanics.

Out of respect for both creators I don't want to really divulge anything that is not in their marketing.

From the Hocus Pocus website you can read the following:

1. The black widow was designed to do one thing very well. That one thing is switch (or vanish) an item in a spectator's hand by waving your hand over theirs.
2. It is worn on your arm with an additional single anchor point.
3. It actuates by extending the arm forward and backward.

The FK Holdout is a type of gravity holdout.

1. It is designed to do many things well and has 10 different attachments for various uses.
2. It is a gravity holdout so it is not actually worn on your arm, it is worn inside your jacket. It anchors to your opposite arm.
3. Moving the opposite arm causes the gravity holdout to raise or lower.

A gravity holdout is designed to vanish or switch out almost any object typically in your own hand. This is usually done with your hand casually at your side since the force of gravity is what lowers the holdout. So the vanishing/switching is done during an offbeat moment. The FK holdout however can be used for some direct uses not typical to gravity because of its innovative design, I can't really talk about this more because Bob doesn't in his advertising.

The BW is designed to vanish or switch out specific types of objects from your spectator's hand since it does not actuate with your hand at your side, but rather it extends when you push your hand out in front of your body. If you read the lengthy thread on the BW HERE you can properly ascertain that the objects to be vanished need to have a certain charateristic, or modified in some way. Also because of the design, if you wanted to switch an object or vanish an object in your own hand you would have to coreograph a reason to extend your arm in front of you (probably reaching for another object, etc.) So the movement neccessary to actuate it is less offbeat because it is not gravity, but rather an active arm motion forward to use it.

The FK Holdout could probably vanish an object from a spectator's hand, but it is not as well suited to that specific task as the BW is. The FK Holdout is overall more versatile because of its various attachments.
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Sean Macfarlane
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Great post Dan, very informative!

Sean
pradell
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To become more educated regarding this device, visit http://www.bobkohlermagic.com/products/holdout.html and read more about the history and the prop itself. But before you purchase this unique and very well made thing that shall not be seen, go to http://www.bobkohlermagic.com/products/holdoutagreement.html and read the licensing agreement. Be sure you are familiar with its terms and agree to lease this product according to all of the rules before you purchase it.
I have seen the prop. Thomas Wayne has made and improved magical illusions which I own. The quality of the work is superior. But it is truly not for everyone. And this, too, is one of the reasons that the price is where it is. This keeps the device out of the reach of the weekend magician and reserves it for professionals who have a need and a desire for this item, and can find a purpose for it in their individual acts.

:magicrabbit:
Sean Macfarlane
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Thomas Wayne is truly an excellent craftsman no doubt about it! I own his wand and have seen his stuff for sale at his booth at the LVMI. I have also seen the holdout and its quality. He also makes some pretty nice leather cases too for the close up magician. Not sure if he makes them anymore, I sure would like to recieve mine that I ordered over one year ago!

Sean
sullivanl
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You didn't recieve your leather close-up case ordered over a year ago from Thomas Wayne?!!

I suggest trying to contact him, if you haven't done so already, and if that doesn't work file a complaint and get a refund via paypal.
cheekychap
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Are there any holdout DVDs?
Al Angello
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I'm just a dum old comedy magician. I have no desire to be the slickest guy there is, but in reading this thread I don't know if we are talking about coins, cards, manipulation, or what. If this darn system is so good showing the world a demo will reveal nothing, but the power everyone in the in crowd is talking about. I promise not to look at the man behind the curtain Bob. Give us a demo so I too can smugly brag that I saw it once too.
Al Angello
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"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Review King
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At a price tag of $1995.00, if I bought this, I'd be just as happy without any demo clips available. I'm sure plenty of close confidants of the two Bob's have seen it live and we've all heard the miracles that can be performed with it.

Like Bill Plamer says, if you are part of the target group for which it is aimed at, you will buy one.

Just my thoughts.

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Jonathan Townsend
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AFAIK there is plenty of video of the FK holdout in action.

But it seems silly to point it out.

It's a holdout and not seen directly.

According to Bob Fitch and others associated with the project it's a wonderfully designed and practical thing which has built-in solutions to several problems one encounters when using a gravity holdout in real-world conditions.

So if you are out in the trenches performing and already using a holdout... you may already have good reason to seek out this device.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Al Angello
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If mere mortals can not see the emperors new clothes, why then is he marching in a parade? Why has there been 71 posts made on the CIA's new top secret project?

Magic Chris,
You forgot to say, "HA HA HA!"
Al


Posted: Nov 27, 2006 12:32pm
---------------------------------------------
Ok, a kind member of the Café PMed me with the general idea what you guys are talking about, so I have no more questions.
Al Angello
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Review King
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Quote:
On 2006-11-27 07:41, Al Angello wrote:
If mere mortals can not see the emperors new clothes, why then is he marching in a parade? Why has there been 71 posts made on the CIA's new top secret project?

Magic Chris,
You forgot to say, "HA HA HA!"
Al


Actually, I meant to add "MUAHAHAHAHAHHA!!"
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Robert Fitch
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For Al Angello...anyone really! You have a great sense of humor and irony.

As Jonathon mentioned, there are films of the HO in action, e.g., some old films of Jack Miller with balls, silks, egg bag, ropes exist...I think through Jack McIlhany. They look pretty darn good...
Our F/K Holdout has 7 DVDs on the various attachments, tricks, etc., but they are only sold with the unit. If you've watched any Criss Angel specials, he uses ours on the vanishing ring to ice cube in the glass....4 coins instantly across...and the passe passe routine on the bar with some spilled coffee milk. Also perhaps, some of me on the Coinvention DVDs. So, enjoy your research...and Happy New Year.

Cheers,
Bob Fitch
"Making Magicians Magical"
Cheers...Imagination can make magicians of us all.
Review King
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Quote:
On 2005-11-08 13:09, Bob Kohler wrote:
It's interesting to check in occasionally to see what's happening at the old Café. Some interesting observations. Here are a couple of thoughts we had while attempting to figure out the best way to share our holdout solutions with the magic community.

First, my main initial motivation was to make sure that the magic world was aware of Bob Fitch. He blew me away with his use of the holdout in the early '80's. Behind the scenes Bob worked with and was a major influence to a lot of working pros including but not limited to David Copperfield, Jeff McBride and many more.

But the community at large was unaware of Bob's talents. After a multitude of major Broadway shows and over 250 nationally televised commercials I can tell you that Bob has an eye for performance that sets him apart from the rest. His observations are priceless. To get him to critique your act would be one of the smartest things you could possibly do.

When we were attempting to release our work on the holdout we had many challenges. How to make it.
How to release it without seriously compromising the secrets etc.

It's been available now for a little over two years. As far as we're concerned the release has been successful. Many thought the license would kill the project. Many thought it was too expensive.

Those who have the system know how complex the project is. It's extremely diffcult to manufacture with literally hundreds of steps. Creating 7 DVD's of training took a ton of time and effort.

I judge our success by customer satisfaction. 100% of the users were blown away by the final product.
Out of all of the units we've shipped only two have changed hands. The circumstances that forced the tranfers were both due to financial hardship/health issues.

Our system is essentially a tool set. How magicians choose to use it and how well each performer handles it is completely out of our hands. I can tell you this. Holdout work give magicians a tool that creates miracles. The Mishell book is title "Holdout Miracles."

I've fooled countless well informed magicians with the holdout during my career. Laymen don't stand a chance. I'll share a story about my first day at the Magic Castle to make the point. I had lunch with the Professor. After lunch he asked me to do a trick for him. I was wearing the system so I did two tricks for him. Vernon ran around (he was in his early '90's at the time and yes, he was running} and he comes back with Albert Goshman and about 20 other guys. So I do a couple more, nobody has a clue what I'm using to fool them.

I'd been using the holdout at trade shows to perform Goshman's classic Salt Shaker routine. I had it down pat. So I ask him if I can do it for him (yes, I'm an idiot) he says OK and we all go down to the close up gallery. We find a couple of laymen for me to do it for and I do the show.

The effect looks much the same as Albert's but the choreography plus using the holdout for complete coin vanishes for each phase has them all stunned. I'm watching their eyes. I know they're fooled. Vernon and everybody rave about the show. Then Vernon looks at Goshman and asks him "what do you think about the kid?" Goshman answers "He's got a ****ty classic palm." (This is a direct quote, don't edit it out!!!) Everybody laughs...the truth is I never classic palmed a coin the during the entire routine!

That night I went to one of Albert's last performances at the Castle before he passed away. After they introduced him he spotted me in the crowd. He did one of the greatest close up shows I've ever seen.
After the show he told me "kid, you can really do the moves but you can't entertain like me!" It was one of the best days of my life.

Having the holdout as a "secret" weapon is most important. These days if Mr. Fitch or me show up wearing any clothes at all, everybody thinks if we fool them we used a holdout. Maybe...

We also get a lot of guys who try to sneak around to find a bad angle. Hey, whatever turns you on.

The main reason I decided not to put a ton of little holdout video demo clips up on the internet is there's just know way you're going to get the feeling that good holdout magic can give you. You'll know in advance of the method and you'll watch it a million times until you think you've figured it out.

Holdout work opens unlimited horizons. On the training DVD's we are teaching the use of the tool. We perform many examples but there's so much more we just didn't have the time to get into.

Another question that seems to pop up is comparisons between the holdouts currently on the market.
To me there's just no comparison. I have all of them, I've used all of them. None of the holdouts out there really are professional in my opinion. They all suffer ione fatal flaw or another.

I constantly have been getting letters about when the next batch will be ready. I should have them back in stock in December. Another question is how much longer will we be making the system. The answer is I really don't know. Our system uses a lot of very expensive, high impact plastics which are an oil based product. The cost are going up, way up. Thomas Wayne is the only craftsman who can make it. His main business is not making magic. If he decides it's too much work for the price that could be the straw that breaks the camels back. My best guess is we'll makes systems only every few years after this batch.
We want to make other attachments we've had on the books for years. This way we'll have the time.

I do have one personal opinion I'd like to share. I really wish everybody on all of the magic forums would change and use their real name. When you read a post from Paul Chosse, Paul Green, Dan Watkins, Bill Palmer and many others you know who they are because they stand behind what they post by using their name.

Personally I just don't read, correspond or answer posts by people with names like "Sleight King" or "Gluestick." If he or she really were a sleight king wouldn't we either know about them or they would want us to know who they are. I feel that using a fake name is like wearing a mask. I guess this is OK if you're really Zorro, going to a Halloween party or are robbing a convenience store...just my two cents. Change your log in to your real name! If all of us that use are real name just plain stop answering any post by those afraid to use their real name, the Café and the Genii Forums would be much more useful to all of us.


Bob's post was from a couple of years back, but I think it warants a bump. I loved the Vernon story. I hope one day Bob writes a book about his adventures in magic. He has some amazing stories that I know many folks would love to hear.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Gamblingman007
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I’m looking for a Fitch and Koler Holdout. Please contact me if you know of anyone who’s selling one. Thank you.

Gamblingman007
Greg Arce
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Boy, it's almost going on 2 decades ago when I was allowed to see a demonstration of this holdout. We were at a Vegas convention and some of us got lucky enough to have a private demo in one of the hotel rooms. I just remember feeling like I was seeing real magic performed right in front of me.

Some of the things I remember: a cut and restore rope where he just really cut a rope in half the tossed the pieces at me. It seemed like the rope restored in mid-air. I saw coins appear and vanish with no sound. I remember having the type of ball you would use in a cups & balls routine thrust into my face and suddenly vanishing.

It was truly magical stuff. And when they explained all the other stuff it could do I was floored. He showed us what you got and it really looked like you were getting a James Bond secret device kit.

Anyway, those are my memories of seeing it in action.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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