So when one does proper SEO as Nash and Ken are doing, the only inquiry that goes is to then. Well and to anyone doing proper SEO in that area.

And they say it is not expensive or difficult.

All that being said, why again would anyone use a cattle call site?

I have opinion as I never use those sites. There just seem fairly counterproductive.

This isn't really about whether gig platforms are "good" or "bad." It's about understanding how discovery actually works now versus how it worked five years ago.
Gig platforms aren't marketing. They're distribution. They aggregate demand for entertainers who haven't built their own visibility yet. That makes sense for some people, especially when you're getting started or cash flow is tight. No judgment there.
Where I think this conversation goes sideways is when we talk about SEO like it's still 2015.
Most of what I'm seeing in these discussions assumes the old model: rank a page, target some keywords, try to outrank a directory in the blue links. That ship has sailed.
Google and the AI layers sitting on top of it moved to entities years ago (2013 Hummingbird Update was this shift). It's less about "who ranks" and more about who gets selected. Often, without anyone clicking anything at all.
This is why stuff like your Google Business Profile, your reviews, how you respond to those reviews, consistency across every platform you're on, and yes, even whether an AI assistant mentions you by name—that matters more now than classic SEO tactics alone.
You can rank beautifully and still lose when Google (or ChatGPT, or Perplexity, or whatever) decides someone else looks like the safer, clearer choice.
So the better question isn't "How do I outrank The Bash or GigSalad?"
It's "How do I become the most trusted, obvious choice for this type of event in my area?"
That usually comes down to:

Answering the questions real clients actually ask—publicly
Being consistent everywhere you show up
Building local trust signals
Making it dead simple for both humans and machines to understand exactly who you are and what you do

None of this means platforms are worthless. They can work as a short-term channel. But long-term? Owning your own visibility and narrative gives you better clients, more control, and a lot less dependency.
Just my take. Love hearing what's actually working for folks.

Thanks Mike. Great updated information on SEO that affects all of our businesses. Man, it is great how we can actually have business discussions here again!

I think you are correct about many having the 2015 mindset when it comes to SEO, and I also think that was the foundation of how these services (GM, GS, etc.) were created and based on (actually much earlier than 2015!) While I know they keep up on the advances as far as technology, it surprises me that they haven't perhaps switched business models to adapt more accordingly. I guess if they're making good money, there may be no need for a major change.


You said..."That usually comes down to:

Answering the questions real clients actually ask—publicly
Being consistent everywhere you show up
Building local trust signals
Making it dead simple for both humans and machines to understand exactly who you are and what you do"

This is a topic within itself. I always have said many magicians and the magic community is "monkey-see, monkey-do" including when things are wrong or incorrect. But they also seem to have a 2015 (or earlier) mentality when it comes to their tools and operations - website, promotional materials, sales process, etc.

They tend to put out there what THEY want to put out there or what they THINK the potential inquiring prospects are interested in or seeking. Where in reality what they (shopping prospects) are actually seeking and most interested in may not at all be what the performer realizes. I think this mindset, mentality, and understanding also needs to be realized and better understood.

As one example I made with one of my coaching students, who specializes in the kids/youth/family market, we made one simple change and added 7 words, actually one 7 word phrase, and we immediately (within 30 days) saw his bookings (and conversion rate) go up over 600% (660). It was amazing. I now use this with all my kids/family performers I coach or consult and it has consistently worked repeatedly. While I am not going to reveal what this is here (this is the info they pay for) it required getting out of their typical mindset and mentality and really focusing on what the buying prospect truly wanted. When you can do this properly, it is game-changing (and can for many even be life-changing).

Without me even realizing it, this example hits and covers all of the criteria points you mentioned...addressing what they client actually wants and is specifically seeking (many times if even they don't know it themselves), clear and concise so both humans and machines can understand it, building trust signals, and using it everywhere you or your business shows up.

The last one was actually most beneficial. Not only did we use it on his website and in all of this promotional materials, but we added it into his Sales Presentation/Performance, and his signage and branding at his physical booth at trade events as a leading promotional point and the results were even more amazing. This was exactly where the, digital, online, and virtual tools and approach met up with analog, physical, longtime traditional entertainment business marketing, promotion, sales, AND the often overlooked Customer Experience.

Thanks again for the great details, explanation, and for many, update from the tech world.

Man, this is why I love this place. And still lurk.

Mindpro, you just demonstrated something that took me years to figure out—and you did it in one example. That 7-word change isn't a "marketing trick." It's the result of actually listening to what the buyer is trying to solve, rather than leading with what we think sounds impressive.

And you're right—most performers (myself included, back when I was doing this full-time) default to "monkey see, monkey do." We copy what other magicians put on their sites, their brochures, their pitch... without ever asking whether any of it actually resonates with the person writing the check.

What you described is really the whole game: close the gap between what we want to say and what they're hoping to hear. When that clicks, everything else (website, signage, sales conversation, even how Google and AI systems understand you) starts pulling in the same direction.

I spent years as a full-time entertainer, hanging out here at the Cafe and over at the old BalloonHQ before health issues pushed me out of performing and into speaking and consulting. I do still use many of the skills I gained as an entertainer. Different path than I planned, but here we are.

I jokingly tell people all the time, "My job is to help business owners not be stupid in their marketing, and it's usually not easy."
But honestly? A lot of what I know about connecting with an audience started right here, learning from guys like you. So being able to give something back means a lot.

Here are 2 tools I built for Marketers I coach
Content Compass: It will audit a webpage's content and evaluate it against the Current website Quality Guidelines
https://chatgpt.com/g/g-68dac77cfde48191......-compass

You-Everywhere Marketing: can take what you have and help you structure for SEO, AEO, Local, and Voice search
https://chatgpt.com/g/g-69380444f1908191......arketing

for either of these to work well you need to have a clear vision of your goal and direction.

Hey Mike as a tech moron I have a question. When answering assume I know nothing.

How fast does information like this go out of date? For example if today I am current state of the art, how long can I plan on that being true. Also at what point am I drastically out of date?

Also at what point is it smart to plan for obsolescence and improvement?

I have seen many a performer stuck in old molds that just don’t work anymore. Worse for them they believe they are current.

Man...Absolutelhy! This is why this place is so valuable when we can actually talk business without disruptions, derailments and offshoot nonsense.

People here have given me grief about my coaching, and some have questioned how I can really help them, and some even say "you could do this on your own without the need for a coach"...but most don't, can't and won't! This is where the difference really comes in.

This is also how I can help virtually any performer, especially the lost or monkey-see, monkey-do performer - just by changing the playing field through mentality and understanding and can usually easily help them reach of often exceed their goals. This is also how I have helped create more 6-figure performers and entertainment business owners for decades now is by seeing and knowing what they don't or can't see or understand themselves. This is why I have been so successful with my coaching and consulting consistently for so long.

There is really so much performers do not know about they they do in both performing and especially in the business. This is also why I truly feel coaching or consulting is an investment in themselves, their future, and what they do. People always are asking me how do I make someone the top (their type of performer) in their market, and to me the answer is easy and always the same - by knowing and seeing what they can't, and by working from my vast knowledge (as both a performer and owner of seven different entertainment agencies, production companies, and as a promoter and the understanding and knowledge of consumers and their expectations, wants, needs, and mentalities.

It is not a tangible, touchable entity so it is easy not to see the value in this, but it is likely the greatest thing of value they will ever receive. Even more difficult for them to see is that they have spent thousands, and in many cases tens of thousands of dollars, in books, courses, live events, trade events like Magic Live or Mindvention, etc., tricks, effects, props, gimmicks, and only picked a couple of small usable things here or there if at all, yet couldn't fathom spending $2,000, $5,000 or $10,000 on a coach or consultant. It is just wild to me, yet these are the same people that are stuck and have been at the same spot for years. This is also why length of time doing something in absolutely no way translates to knowledge and experience. I hear old-timers say I have been doing this for 50 years, as if to say they know it all and can't possibly learn anything new or that they didn't know. This is the tragedy in our business, not to mention blindingly sad.

This is just so wrong, but absolutely proves my point that you don't realize what you don't know and how much you don't know, and if you are not open to learning or growing you will just always be stuck at the same level, repeating, and doing the same things over and over again, just because "that's the way I've always done it!" It is so frustrating, limiting and stunning any possibility for progress or growth.

Thanks for the kind words Mike.

Monkey see monkey do is great for a lot of reasons. First it is just what you are exposed to. So it is all that is really available.

Second it an easy path and quite honestly the path of least resistance.

It also gives you lots of great excuses for where you are. Mentally it is very soothing knowing mediocrity is good enough and you get plenty of coping mechanisms.

I’ve always been of the mindset that if you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes.

Wow Mike! You are a complete legend. Never seen such an ai program before. Normally such an audit would be quite costly. But that took me like two minutes.

Very top level stuff.

I always thought this place had great information if you could get past the nonsense.

Mike is the man!

Absolutely. It's amazing the conversations we can have here and the topics we can cover given the chance.

Danny, great question—and honestly, the right question. Most people never think to ask it.

Here's the simple version.
There are two things that age at completely different speeds:
Tools and tactics go stale fast. SEO tricks, platform rules, algorithm hacks, "best practices"—those can have a shelf life of 6 to 24 months, sometimes less. That's why people can feel current while actually being years behind. They learned something that worked, froze it in time, and never noticed the ground shifting under them.

Principles and mindset age very slowly, if at all. Understanding what the buyer is actually trying to solve. Clarity of message. Trust. Consistency. Making it stupidly easy for someone to choose you. Those don't go obsolete—they just get expressed through new tools.
That 7-word example Mindpro gave? That's not tech. That's human behavior. That works 20 years from now.
Now here's where it gets interesting...

The last 12 months have flipped everything upside down. The normal 6-24 month cycle for tools? Gone. We've seen tools that are less than a month old become obsolete because AI search—some are calling it AEO, "Answer Engine Optimization"—is becoming dominant. People aren't just searching Google anymore. They're asking ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini... and expecting answers, not links.

The dirty secret? AEO isn't stable or standardized yet. It's shifting too fast to track reliably. And yet everyone is suddenly claiming to be an expert at it. That should tell you something.

What we do know is this: the AI engines are using something called RRF—fancy term for pulling from multiple sources to verify and build trust. Which means you can't just have a website anymore. You need a wider net. Your website becomes the Velcro that holds everything together, but you have to start thinking like a media company first, entertainer second.
It all comes back to the foundation: Brand. Tone. Message. Voice. (If you have these SPOT ON, then you don't need to be peantic at chasing to tools)
Get those right, and you can let the tools shift around you. Audit them periodically, sure—but don't chase them.
When do you become "drastically out of date"? Not when you stop learning tools. You're out of date when results flatten and you explain it away. When you blame platforms, or clients, or "the market." When you keep doing things "because they used to work." When you stop questioning your assumptions about buyers.

The dangerous part isn't being behind. It's thinking you're current when you're not.
That's the performer trap you described perfectly.
I think of it like this: Principles, review every few years. Tactics, review every 6-12 months. Assumptions about buyers? Question constantly.
The people who stay relevant aren't the most technical. They're the ones who never stop asking, "What's changed in how people decide?"

That question alone keeps you from becoming obsolete. As long as you are willing to ask and audit.

Specifically: The Content Compass, my team and I update as Google drops new standards.

@Mindpro
I'll say this straight.

You and I haven't always seen eye to eye over the years. And honestly? There were times your answers rubbed me the wrong way. But with some distance and a lot more experience, I can see that while I didn't always like how something was said, the content behind it absolutely helped shape how I think and how I built what I have now.

That's part of growing up in this business.

You're spot on about coaching getting devalued. People will drop $10K on tricks, props, and convention trips—pick up maybe a couple usable things—and then balk at spending a fraction of that on someone who can actually see what they can't. It's wild. But it's also why the ones who do invest tend to pull away from the pack.

If it weren't for my coaches, I wouldn't be where I am. Full stop. I'm still in multiple masterminds, still have coaches for different areas of my business, and I'm hiring two more coaches for my own company in Q1. The moment you think you don't need outside perspective is usually the moment you stop growing.
I've been lurking around the Café for close to 20 years now. And the reason I still pop in—and try to contribute when I can—is that I got real value from this place. Still do.

Appreciate the conversation. And appreciate being able to actually talk business at this level again.

So, for those who don't remember me or haven't crossed paths before, I was a full-time entertainer for years before health issues pushed me into a different direction. Ended up building a marketing consultancy (I train Agencies and in-house marketing teams for larger companies), and now I spend most of my time helping business owners not be stupid with their marketing. (It's harder than it sounds.)

I have agencies that are students of mine, and they use these same tools to build audits that they charge a premium for.
They also dig into some of the advanced features I've buried in there for myself and my students. Since we're having an actual business conversation here, let me show you one of those.

Try this prompt in Content Compass on any of your landing pages:

-----------------------------------

"This is my [name the page/service and include the full URL].
I need to do an SBERT analysis on it and extract the salience so I can see how the entity establishment flows along the page.
Respond in a MECE format with:
- What the proxy salience suggests about entity establishment flow
- A section-by-section SBERT analysis showing the primary and secondary topic for each section, and a score of how it affects the overall document score
- Followed by section-by-section suggestions to improve EEAT signals and overall content optimization (what elements are needed to improve signals)"


---------------------------------
What this does is help you find sections in your copy that are watering down what the algorithm actually sees. Places where you've drifted off-topic, or where your message gets muddy.
One warning though: don't strip out your brand, tone, voice, or vision just to chase a score. Those are what make you you. The goal is clarity, not sterility.

In the above post, I should have given some credit to the Magic Cafe also, and specifically, Mike Clay, whose many posts on the subject were extremely helpful, and also took the time to answer a private message.

Sadly, I now realize I am still operating on the 2015 model. Mike has kicked me in the butt. Thank you again Mike Clay!

Okay, so I signed up for the bash a week or so ago. Just got my first lead. Apparently, you don't get the client's number until after you send a quote.

You will never understand how much I dislike that. It's as if they didn't drop two seconds of thought into that system. Sending a quote for an event to be able to talk with someone about what that event even is will certainly be an interesting operation. I can see a lot of exaggerated quotes in the future.

They have the clients phone number but just do not release it to the performers until you respond through their system. If they give you the phone number you will contact them outside of their system, which is why you must respond through the system first to get the info. This also allows them to gain the data and analytics they need, and for you to know how many others the inquiry is being sent to and if they don't book you who they have booked.

There are actually many benefits to this. This was the standard until GS and a couple of others changed it.

Did you join with the paid premium, national listing, or just a free local listing? (I'm guess I know , but just want to be sure on it and not assume).

You’re not assuming Mindoro.

Why do you dislike it so much Fedora? Of course they don’t want you in direct contact with the prospect. I’d actually expect that. They put a whole lot of thought into it.

The fact is you signed up for a talent aggregator web page. All they say is you’re a talent in that area at that time. That is what these sites do. If you dislike the system so much then work on your own SEO. Spend the time and the money. Oh wait never mind you won’t spend money to learn.

When you use these sites it is their house their rules and it is that simple. They don’t care what one guy nobody knows thinks. Why should they as there are plenty of others who will do what they want?

It is simply another reason not to use them regardless of the freeness of the site. Worse yet those who will embrace the rules and learn to work within them instead of complaining will prosper. They will get far more leads and close far more clients.

I signed up with whatever the paid basic one's called. I remember you suggested the other one, but decided to go with the basic to see how the system works. Apparently it can be upgraded at any time which I'll do if it works out.

The reason I dislike it is it's fundimentally inconvenient for both the client and the vendor. No doubt endless worthless quotes are being sent every day just to get the contact information. Which would then have to be changed later.

If it was simply about tracking information, they could require an initial message to reveal information. But by requiring a quote means people have to give a price with next to no information. The reason is almost definitely to keep people on their payment system.

The issue is, once a vendor gets their number, and they have to make a new quote anyway, they have little reason to do so thru their payment system and pay their fee. This is an identical problem rather they require a quote or a message. Meaning they aren't actually avoiding this problem by quote alone.

The best system would likely be to have contact locked behind message and booking verification by client. (who will confirm booking to avoid the constant calls and messages) This would be the simpler path and avoid the constant worthless quotes that annoy both the client, the vendor, and their system.

I just checked and apparently the highest priced plan also has the quote requirement. It might actually be a good idea to remove it for the most expensive one to incentive folks to buy the most expensive plan. Which would actually solve a couple of issues.

Anyway, I'll certainly update on my experience with the service as it goes.

Do you ever see things from any point of view other than your own?

Yes, I see what they're doing. But there's a reason Gigsalad does it similar to how I just described. It's just inconvenient to make what is essentially fake quotes. Odd to develop a system that leads to it.

Also, there should be far more transparency that a request to one person can be answered by someone else. That has to be confusing to the consumer.