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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts 
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I have a traditional chop cup, but lately I've been curious about trying out some methods using a PK ring.
Any good suggestions for resources for my research (preferably routines or handlings that you have personally used or benefited from)? Thanks! ...
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1516 Posts
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Some real quick resources to get you on your journey.
Just A Cup by Axel Hecklau. GO HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGDVBaKVef0 Chop - Craig Perry. GO HERE: https://www.magicinc.net/products/chop-t......46668080 |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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On Apr 24, 2026, Jerry wrote: Thanks, Jerry. "Just a Cup" looks really impressive, but it's a bit more than I want to spend at this point. I will definitely put it on my wish list. I've definitely considered picking up "Chop." Although Craig uses a different gimmick, I suspect a lot of his teaching could translate over.
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1739 Posts
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The problem with the PK ring is that it oozes M...gs... to the spectator. I gave up on using this long ago.
Spectators would just suspect what it was. Better to just go with the suggestions above. One uses a well hidden gimmick, the other a sharpie disguise that is innocent looking. |
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1516 Posts
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Okay, I am going to tip my hand here and give some underground materiel.
i believe Craig source is William Zavis "Divers Deceits" 1973. Great little book you can pickup for low price (see below). Very few know of this book. It does not matter to me if you use a magic wand, marker or some other device, it's the principle that is important. The ability to transfer the "magic" is fantastic. Actually I recommend the book over the other options. But once you know the method, you probable want to get additional information. That is what I did. I have everything I suggested. GO HERE: https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/divers-deceits/ The book has other routines and is "not just cup". I agree about the ring, but it is an option. |
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Zauberman Veteran user 345 Posts
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Just my 2 cents worth. I've used both Hecklau's & Craigs modus operandi.
Alex Hecklau doesn't use a PK but something similar (and IMHO much better). He published a set of excellent lecture notes (in German way back) that contained his Chop Cup method and how to make the gimmick. I made one and still use it on occasion to this day. BRilliant! I have also used Craig Petty 'Chopped'. This works well also. Rather than use a rolled up dollar bill I use a couple gimmicked balls. The nice thing about both methods is that the cup isn't gimmicked. One doesn't have to drop the cup abruptly onto the table but can release the ball, completely under one's control. |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1417 Posts
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You can use the Silent Assistant gimmick, or I think there are other makers too, or make your own in 10 minutes by cutting up a thumbtip and magnet and tape. Probably better than a PK ring. It has a lot of uses. I came up with that idea on my own a long time before they came on the market for use on a specific trick, but realized it can be used for a million tricks.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://magiciandanfreed.com |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 25, 2026, countrymaven wrote: My PK rings look just like my wedding ring; I can swap them out at any time.
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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On Apr 26, 2026, danfreed wrote: Based on the responses, I suspect I wasn't clear enough on my intent. I already use a PK ring and wanted to play with this as an experiment. I've similarly experimented with other concepts, such as creating my own gimmicked paper cups. I appreciate all of the answers so far (which have all been helpful) and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding I may have caused. (And Dan, I will probably pick up Silent Assistant.)
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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On Apr 25, 2026, Jerry wrote: Thanks, Jerry, for this recommendation! I might find a couple of more books from Abe Books to add to my order, to save on shipping. I completely agree with the idea that it is the principle that counts, which is the reason behind my post. Great minds think alike?
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 25, 2026, Zauberman wrote: Thanks! This is one thing that really attracted me to investigate these options.
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22848 Posts
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Well this wins the award for running the furthest and fastest when nobody is chasing you. Wow. Very not so natural handling of this cup.
Is switching a ball really that big a deal? I mean if you can't successfully switch one ball for another should you even be doing the routine? The question is what exact problem do you believe you are solving by changing the location of the gimmick? I mean screwing around with it in the basement or impressing people at the magic meeting is one thing. Sure that may be cool. But what issue do you think this is solving? (And if you are slamming down a cup, like most people seem to think has to be done with a regular gimmick, you are doing it WAY wrong. I would say anyone who has to do this needs to practice.)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 28, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: Danny, I'm not sure which post you are responding to.
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22848 Posts
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The idea that a chop cup somehow needs to be fixed.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Zauberman Veteran user 345 Posts
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The original Chop Cup is great...proven & well suited for most magician needs.
However....there are some nice handling advantages that having an external gimmick holds. First you can drop the ball into the cup...and immediately steal it out of the cup by raising your hand with a PK ring, gimmick or marker. Both Hecklau and petty do this in their routines. You can pretty well use any cup you fancy. I can use my cups & balls copper cup, a coffee mug or a McDonalds paper cup. You can do an in the spectators hand ball appearance (Hecklau does this). Plus many other variations. I've used all 3 (for years) and put my original Chop Cups away years ago. My goto Chop Cup now is a Starbucks Coffee Cup and Magic Marker. Each has it's advantages. You can watch Don Alan and Paul Daniels get incredible mileage out of the original cup. So, Smithart, I think it's great you're trying different methods. Not a huge amount of material available other than those already mentioned on this method. I played around with it for a couple years before I replaced my lovely original copper cup. It largely depends on what you want to do in your routine and which method/cup works best for you. 
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22848 Posts
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Yea you have to handle it in such odd ways to do anything. I mean it looks like one gets a shock in the hand when the ball drops. I mean in all fairness if you are going to set the cup on their hand, you would do so. Not hang onto it. And ALL the heat is ON the cup at the point at which your hand must twitch.
Yea yea I know magicians like it. I know. Spectators will never notice. Again if you have to put the cup down abruptly to dislodge a ball, you were simply doing it wrong. The other real point is what people remember. A HUGE percentage of people never remember the first part of any cups and balls routine once the large loads come out. So I wouldn't make improvements to a part of the routine that is almost instantly forgotten.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 28, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: Okay. I was confused because I haven't seen anything in this thread about "fixing" the Chop Cup. I haven't seen any discussion about running or chasing -- anything about the deceptiveness of any handling or method, including the "classic." I haven't seen any discussion about the difficulty or ease of any particular approach, or anything about the amount of practice required. And nobody has mentioned solving any kind of problem. I literally thought you might have accidentally posted on the wrong thread. ...
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22848 Posts
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The video posted here points out how this is an improvement. He talks about what you gain from this method.
Another here mentions how you must drop the cup abruptly. Did I miss something?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 29, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: Yes. I asked for resources on this topic, Jerry provided some, and on one of them the creator made a sales pitch. That's neither surprising nor implies that anyone here endorses his opinion. Jerry didn't even claim that it was good solution; he just made me aware of it. I won't speak for Zauberman, but I interpreted his statement about dropping the cup as a way to convey that he saw advantages in having more control and not relying as much on finesse. You've mentioned numerous times that what works for one person isn't necessarily best for another. And I don't believe that you are saying that I am somehow inadequate to perform a chop cup routine because my health is failing. I actually adjust how I handle several sleights based on my physical condition on a particular day. Mike Powers recently mentioned some the changes he has been required to make, which made me feel better. So yes, you did miss something. But even the best of us do, sometimes. (Even when I'm right, I assume that I'm only partially right. The problem is that there is no easy way to know where I'm wrong.)
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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smithart Special user Texas 873 Posts
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Quote:
On Apr 28, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: That's a false dichotomy. I don't "try to impress people at magic meetings." Except when I'm sick, I perform an average of twice a week for real audiences, and about once every three or four months I have the opportunity to perform my small platform show. (I've intermittently had more requests than I am healthy enough to fulfill.) It is possible to do both: do your best to entertain your audience... and entertain yourself. (Of course, how well I personally fulfil either of those goals may be questionable.)
AKA Professor Memento
https://mementomysteries.com |
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Posted: Apr 22, 2026 08:44 pm 
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