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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts 
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On Jul 28, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: This was sort of my point with this post. First off I’m not a fan of automating ANY part of a client interaction. Many like to deal with actual people. Second it comes to follow up anyhow. If you are not able to have a system to follow up, no CRM will help that. A system needs to be put in place to do this effectively. I don’t think it too difficult to do this. It is part of the job.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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thomasR Inner circle 1286 Posts
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On Aug 5, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote: Agreed. I'm trying to figure out what the desire or appeal is? What problem is this supposed to solve. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts
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On Aug 5, 2026, thomasR wrote: I believe it is targeted at those who want to automate away the process. This is a legitimate choice. I chose not to.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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thomasR Inner circle 1286 Posts
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I'm not sure if it is a legitimate choice to automate away the process. Not in this business at least.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts
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I just mean that I don’t judge anyone for doing so is all. Everyone is free to do as they wish.
I personally don’t think it is smart. I don’t think it is too big a deal or, when done properly, takes up too much time. Those are personal choices for everyone.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 11145 Posts
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It has always seemed odd to me that so many magicians seem to go out of their way to not want to or to avoid contact with prospects and clients. The whole trend of automating the process or becoming "hands-off" as a way to conduct business has always amazed me.
Combine this with online forms (instead of phone encouraging calls) and social media, and we're, I guess, lucky that they even show up for the shows! (then again, there was that brief trend of zoom show, lol) I have talked to literally hundreds of performers and have yet to be convinced that any of these guys and gals have anywhere near the same or level of connection and relationship that comes with doing all of this live in-person. As you say, it doesn't take much time, and is simply part of operating an entertainment business. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts
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I’m just not a fan of the idea of automating away the process of connecting with clients. Seems counter productive to me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magicant Regular user Manchester UK 137 Posts
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I agree - there is nothing that can go wrong with a pen and lead sheet.
It's when you want to message them for venue information, email them the day before the event and thank them the day after. Also when you wish to automatically send out an email to an important client 2 weeks before their review date for the next years bookings. This is where a reliable system comes in place and saves you hours. Being able to with just one click add them to a list of clients, create an event and immediately open up an invoice ready to hit send saves so much time and arguably makes you look more professional when they receive a contract with signature, and payment page all in one. It all comes down to preference and what you want to achieve. For me I wanted a system that worked on the go as well as while travelling and reduced my admin dramatically while increasing professionalism to the client. Quote: On Aug 5, 2026, Mindpro wrote:
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Producers of COVERT ADAPTIONS - INFAMOUS - DEADLY MARKED DECK - GUARANTEED JACKPOT - THE EXPERIMENT - CERBERUS WALLET - AND MANY MORE! www.magicworld.co.uk (UK) |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts
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I do not find automated anything professional. That’s just me. Every single thing you listed can be covered quite easily with pen and paper. Heck it could be done on a shovel with a piece of chalk. Well that is an exaggeration, but still funny.
Salespeople have been taught this stuff for over a century. A proper lead sheet from a call along with proper procedures in place to transfer it to booking sheets , which allows you the follow up procedure is all you need. This allows you to keep personal contact throughout the interaction. Keeps the client happy easily. The exact second I get an automated email of any sort from anyone it tells me immediately I am not as important to them as I thought. I dislike that so I don’t ever do it to others. That’s just me. Not right or wrong, just my way is all. I will not automate away client relationships. To me that is just silly because practically my entire business model depends upon relationships. In reality most do. Automating responses is absolutely valid. I’m not slagging it. I simply disagree is all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 11145 Posts
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Yes, I agree with the professionalism. I also get why some chooseto use the tech, especially for younger people who've grown up with it.
I have heard every reason or excuse - I work out of town, I have too many shows, I don't have the time, and so on. I have toured for 40+ years, 42-44 weeks per year. Run my performing business, my agencies, my coaching and consulting, I have booked over 10,000 bookings, and still have had plenty of time and made great relationships doing it the old school, analog way, lol. Marketing, sales presentations, week or two advance work, day of gig work, follow up and surveys. All it takes is discipline and organization. But gain, to each their own. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts
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I get it with the people who grew up with the tech thinking everything has to be tech.
Xenophanes was a Greek philosopher who posited that if horses and oxen could be taught to draw they’d draw the gods as horses and oxen, or something really close to it. So it is about familiarity. Been around for a while. That doesn’t mean it is necessarily better because it is new. I know for me it isn’t.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magicant Regular user Manchester UK 137 Posts
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Totally agree and at the end of the day it's what works for you.
Discipline is needed with all methods 
Quote: On Aug 7, 2026, Dannydoyle wrote:
==============================
Producers of COVERT ADAPTIONS - INFAMOUS - DEADLY MARKED DECK - GUARANTEED JACKPOT - THE EXPERIMENT - CERBERUS WALLET - AND MANY MORE! www.magicworld.co.uk (UK) |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts
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That is usually what disappoints people with tech. Discipline is needed as well. Tough to automate away discipline.
You sir are correct.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3433 Posts
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For many years I've found it fascinating how so many people think automating something will do the work for you. Then, when something goes wrong or is missing, they'll blame the automation. I've seen it so many times. Yup, discipline, or lack thereof.
I agree with Danny that personal contact is important. I've (sorta) semi-accepted that huge corporations feel they have to use automation to deal with the customers who keep them in business, but if I were to want to hire, say, a guy to do the outside windows or mow the lawn while I'm on vacation, or something similar, and I received what looked like an automated response, I'd skip him and look somewhere else. He can use a Cray supercomputer to run his business if he wants to, but I don't want to work with him through computer forms or an app on my phone. "Oh, sorry, the computer crashed" is way too old by now.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "If I were to do an illusion show" |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 11145 Posts
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Amen!
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thomasR Inner circle 1286 Posts
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On Aug 6, 2026, magicant wrote: You can create saved e-mails in G-mail. It's a much better way to go since you can actually customize them based on each individual you are sending to. Copy and Pasting info onto an invoice template doesn't take long. I'm not sure where I'm saving the time? |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 11145 Posts
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Isn't that how everyone has done it for years?
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 23016 Posts
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Before that, and stay with me here, we used a pen and paper.
I agree thomasR. It seems both to not save much time, AND be less personal.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3433 Posts
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Actually, this reminds me of something similar I was working on (mostly on Saturday mornings) back in the antediluvian days of DOS, when dBase IV and Clipper were state-of-the-art database tools. Must have been 1989 or so. It included a client list, custom letters (snail mail), invoices, an income report, an expense report broken down into IRS (income tax) categories, set lists, a calendar, and other stuff. Other interests got in the way and I put it aside, but it was a fun project.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "If I were to do an illusion show" |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1426 Posts
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For some of us, it's hard to keep track and stay on top of invoices, payments, confirmation, etc etc. It's easy to say, well, just have a system and follow it, but that's not so easy for some of us. I could still mess up with a CRM, but at least everything would be in one place and maybe easier and quicker, if the CRM is really good. I have little experience with CRM's, but it seems like you could use one and still keep things personal as appropriate, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Not sure I'll use one anyway, hard to get out of old habits and methods, but just making a point here.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://magiciandanfreed.com |
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Posted: Aug 5, 2026 08:16 pm 
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