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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » New to coins...kind of (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Shane Wiker
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Inner circle
Las Vegas
1199 Posts

Profile of Shane Wiker
Hi, I would consider myself an above intermediate cardician, but I don't do a lot of coin work. I would say I have a good classic palm, and know quite a few coin sleights, so I'm not looking for any beginning coin books/DVDs.
I have Bobo's book, RCM, and a few other books and DVDs, but whenever I try to learn some coin magic, I go back to cards, not because what I have learned is too hard, but I find all the coin magic I've seen obvious. I keep trying to find some good coin material, but so far, EVERY coin routine I've seen I've been able to tell exactly how it's done, and although laymen aren't likely to see as much as a magician does, I would still think it likely for them to see the moves as well.
What I am looking for is a source for coin magic where I could learn some impressive routines that would be undetectable by most laymen. I don’t care about difficulty level, because although I am not an advanced coin magician, when I learn something new, I tend to practice it about 4-6 hours per day, until I get it down. Could any experienced coin magicians help me out? Thanks.

Shane Wiker
BradleyNott
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Veteran user
Westwood, CA (UCLA)
351 Posts

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What type of routines interest you?
If you were a hotdog, and you were starving...would you eat yourself? I know I would!
Shane Wiker
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Inner circle
Las Vegas
1199 Posts

Profile of Shane Wiker
That's the thing. I don't know what interests me. I liked the 3/4 across routine, but I found the last transfer to be obvious (Crossing the hands and doing the pointing transfer). I know some coin vanishes, but it's obvious that the coin is in the other hand.

Could someone list their favorite routines and where to learn them? I'm not trying to copy everyone else, but I don't know enough coin magic to tell what I like.

BTW, I have Curtis Kam's Palms of Steel, Modern Coin Magic, Revolutionary Coin Magic, and some other DVDs like On the Spot that have some coin magic.

Shane Wiker
mike gallo
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Inner circle
1341 Posts

Profile of mike gallo
Shane, I have 2 recomendations...1) Troy Hoosiers Charming Chinese Challenge 2) Doug Brewers The unexpected Visitor.

Mike
joeKing
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United States
979 Posts

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A nice, easy, classic routine you could get is Paul Wilson's Crowded Coins (now on PDF)...It's a routine called 3 Fly which I am SURE you've atleast heard of...It's the classic coins across put at the fingertips...Very visual and gets amazing reactions!

If you could find a copy of Chris Kenner's Totally Out Of Control...There is a spellbound routine in there that is absolutely amazing...
~joeKing
S2000magician
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Inner circle
Yorba Linda, CA
3469 Posts

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Recently I had the distinct pleasure of watching the Cafe's own Rich Cowley perform a marvelous coin flurry of his own divising. He told me that the routine took him twenty years and fifteen minutes to develop: twenty years to acquire all of the sleights and collect the bits of patter, and fifteen minutes to get the one bit that put it all together into an immensely entertaining routine. And Rich is primarily a cardman, not a coinman.

While it may seem obvious that the coin appeared simply because you placed it there from your other hand, in fact the overall effect is extremely magical. And this is coming from a magician who's been doing coin magic longer than many of the Cafe members have been alive. I can only imagine how magical it looks to a layman.

I have the advantage of having a wife whose sense of what laymen will enjoy is spot on: many times I've seen a routine that didn't impress me only to have her say that I should learn and perform it because audiences will love it, and she's always been right. My first suggestion, therefore, would be for you to find such a wife. Failing that, another family member or friend who is not a magician but enjoys magic could be a big help. Let such a person watch the performance of some of the coin effects you're considering and render a layman's opinion of their effectiveness.
Shane Wiker
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Inner circle
Las Vegas
1199 Posts

Profile of Shane Wiker
Joeking, is Crowded Coins on Knock em Dead? I watched the demo video and many of the effects seemed impressive. Is all of Crowded Coins on the demo on Penguin Magic or just the beginning, because it showed a production of three coins, but I thought the coins were also suppposed to travel from one hand to the other.

S2000, you are right. I have several routines that I enjoy but my family members weren't impressed, and several that I didn't find very impressive, that my family freaked out when watching. I'll try out some coin magic, but I don't know where to start. Like I said, the only, "All coins" sources I have are Curtis Kam's Palms of Steel, Modern Coin Magic, and Revolutionary Coin Magic. Are there any particularly impressive routine on those to start with? Thanks for your replies.

Shane Wiker
Sirakor
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Regular user
179 Posts

Profile of Sirakor
I know some coin vanishes, but it's obvious that the coin is in the other hand.

not really... you know where it is, but if you can make the spectator firmly believe the coin went into your left hand, yet you show it empty a second later that's impressive. of course you cant just go around and say look I put this coin into my left, oh now its not there its in my right. that's not impressive at all... what you need is a good routine and a convincing presentation that builds on your sleights, rather than a sequence of sleights without any framework. it's all in the presentation as they say...
also, how about a one-handed vanish? it can't be in the other hand... or a spider vanish or a complete vanish... if the left hand is empty it must be in the right... right? but it isn't there either... =)

once again... there is much more in Bobo's than you might think. It has a lot of good routines! Some of them may need some tweaking, but that's the same with all routines really. Unless you want to become an impersonator of eg. David Roth, take a look at several similar routines and combine/alter them to suit your style. Think of your own story and presentation.
sethb
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Inner circle
The Jersey Shore
2700 Posts

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Sirakor is right -- one coin sleight, by itself, is not going to convince anyone of anything. But it's not supposed to: a sleight is not a effect, it is just a means of creating an effect. For example, a thumb palm is not a "trick," but it can be used to perform a great effect known as "The Miser's Dream" (there's a good coin classic for you to sink your teeth into, BTW).

I also agree with Mike Gallo's suggestions for the "Charming Chinese Challenge" and "The Unexpected Visitor" DVD's. The first one is a fine coin-off-ribbon routine with some very nice touches; the latter has enough stuff to keep you busy for a long time. You might also look into Volume 2 of David Roth's "Ultimate Coin Magic" DVD's, which contains some beautiful work with various types of Okito Boxes and some good coin/silk routines.

Unless you're deliberately trying to work without any gaffed coins, you might also want to invest in a couple of simple gaffs that will greatly increase your range. Bobo's has plenty of info on C/S coins and ]s, which I'd recommend for starters.

I'd also suggest the venerable "Cap & Pence" effect, better known as the "Stack of Quarters." There is a wonderful dealer's effect called "Whisper" which IMHO is a great improvement on the existing Cap & Pence gaffs, and it comes with detailed illustrated instructions covering every point of presentation. Highly recommended, and not expensive (about $40), considering what you're getting.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of coin magic! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
Larry Barnowsky
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Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from
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Hi Shane,
If you have RCM as well as Curtis Kam's Palms of Steal then you have dozens of routines to choose from that will deceive any layman and most magicians. I'm afraid that me telling you what is my favorite coin effects are really won't help you find what works best for you.
As far as coin vanishes, and "knowing the coin is in the other hand" that could be said of card magic too when a card is switched etc. I would recommend that you work on your sleight fundamentals. Rubenstein's Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights is a great resource. Learn to do one of the several retention vanishes he teaches and soon you will be fooling yourself in the mirror not to mention your audience.
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27083 Posts

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Shane, go see some good coinmen. Can you get to where Armando is working? or Jay Sankey? or Troy Hooser? or ....

Have you seen David Roth live/in person?

I agree that magic on video looks strange. Try to see the stuff in person.

As to where to start... I stronly suggest learning the basics and leaving the 'clever' stuff till you can make the basics work.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
James Harrison
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Special user
Ontario, Canada
762 Posts

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I'd recommend David Stone's two dvd set, defiantly worth their salt.


He will fool you. And really deep down, isn't that what we want? Smile
Tiki
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Loyal user
Northwest Arkansas, USA
247 Posts

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Shane-

I disagree with your premise regarding the "obviousness" of well-done coin magic.

That said, I would encourage you to take a look at Troy Hooser's Total Destruction DVDs. Troy makes good use of flipper coins and shell sets, while using only basic sleights.

Also, you may want to check out Roth's Expert Coin Magic vol 1-3 to get more comfortable or convincing with basic sleights or Roth's Ultimate Coin Magic Vol 1 for great routines with gaffed coins and basic sleights.

Next month, Jay Sankey will be lecturing in the US. It is my understanding that he intends for this to be his last lecture series for quite some time. I suspect he will be in or near Las Vegas, but the tour schedule has been printed on this forum within the last month.

Good luck.

Tiki
preston91
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Regular user
clearwater,fl
187 Posts

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Shane;
My favorite coin trick for restaurant work is Gadabout Coins Revisited by Ron Bauer.
You can get this fron Ron at http://www.thinklikeaconjuror.com
It is great, has a wonderfull presentation and I get the best spectator reaction of any coin effect I do.

Paul
BradleyNott
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Veteran user
Westwood, CA (UCLA)
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Does his version do away with the click pass in the end? I watched his sample video and it seems like he eliminate it in favor of his own vanish.
If you were a hotdog, and you were starving...would you eat yourself? I know I would!
Pants99
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Loyal user
El Paso, TX
230 Posts

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Sounds like a job for Dan...Check these vids out from his site!!!!

http://www.coinvanish.com/
Buckle up... it makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of your car.
joeKing
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Special user
United States
979 Posts

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Quote:
On 2004-08-05 01:16, Shane Wiker wrote:
Joeking, is Crowded Coins on Knock em Dead? I watched the demo video and many of the effects seemed impressive. Is all of Crowded Coins on the demo on Penguin Magic or just the beginning, because it showed a production of three coins, but I thought the coins were also suppposed to travel from one hand to the other.


Sorry for the late reply...
Crowded Coins is NOT shown on the demo. 3 Fly is a coins across in the hands...Denis Behr has a version on his site that is based off of Paul's
( http://www.denisbehr.de/ )
~joeKing
Sirakor
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Regular user
179 Posts

Profile of Sirakor
I have to agree that Gadabout Coins is a nice routine. Could anyone who does Ron Bauers version tell me how different it is from Bobo's and Dan Watkins version? Is it the same effect with different sleights/presentation or is it a (partly) different effect? I currently do a version that is very similar to Dan Watkins', but with some slightly different sleights.

Shane, you have to remember that coins are pretty different from cards. Any magic routine is only as good as its presentation, but with cards many effects don't require a story. It's sufficient to say what you are doing (eg. "please pick a card and remember it, put it back and shuffle - ... - is this your card?"). This kind of thing works without a story because there are so many (different) cards and subconsciously the spectator always notices all of them. If you have only one coin, all attention is going to be on that one single coin, so you better have a good story, good presentation, good misdirection in order to reduce the spectators attention on the coin so the sleight can fool him (better). There are little quick tricks without a story that you can try (eg in Bobo's 'Two pennies on the leg', but do a proper QUICK retention vanish instead or 'Coins in the teeth', but they won't be nearly as impressive as a routine with a good story and proper acting.
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