Which is the best hindu gypsy thread or dragon thread.

I don't want to use gimmicks or hiding extras.

A sleight of hand version.

Please reply if you have or know of BOTH.

Also, where is the most complete description of Hindu gypsy thread.

Kukram

Dragon thread fooled me... but the old standard is easier to do. I don't know where it is in print, but someone will give you the references.

The key is the use of BASTING thread. It breaks so easy... or, as I have played with, Dental Floss. It has a cutter built in... can't miss.

In the Lewis Ganson Teach in Series booklets there was one on the Hindu Thread. In one of Billy Mccombs books he describes his routine. Which book I am not sure. If you have any of the old Gen Magazines Marconick's routine was published in one issue. that routine is in the Ganson booklet as well.

Vol # 7 of Tarbell has a routine for this effect as well.

Pete,
I also use the dental floss with the built-in cutter, and if you use the waxed floss, the pieces stick together well.

Jeff

I love the Gypsy Thread more than anything else, especially when I saw the video released by Camirand Magic and also seeing Alain Choquette doing it on WGM1.

Unfortunately the trick requires a set-up every time and you should do it with the thread reel with you. There seems to be no shortcut about the preparation.

All are good. Actually, it really depends where you are performing. For me, Dragon Thread works well close-up, especially when doing walk-around where you won't have time to set-up.

This is the pro version with special UV thread that can be seen at great distances with UV lighting, as in a theater show. I bought the package after seeing it performed at a theater in Hawaii.

Dragon thread routine?
Isn't that the routine where one rolls up the thread to a smal coil/bundle -without taking it from a spool- and then nips pieces off?
I've seen a video of it not too long ago -if it is that piece of trickery you guys are talking about- and it was said to be invented by a Chinese..BUT, I well remember it was published and invented many years back by Maximillian Londono!! (name out of memory, his instructions are stuffed away somewhere but I recall very well how the handling works- and I never liked it..the classical gypsy/hindu-thread is a much cleaner and better handling and has been in the close-up program of many rare and fine magicians..Fred Kaps, Piet Forton aso. ,apart from all those mentioned in the Ganson Teach in, like Ali Bongo, Marconick aso.)
Oh yes, the solution to the preparation problem simply is to have a couple of spools ready prepared..I do..
They don't take up that much space in your pouch, close-up case, whatever..I wouldn't though have them all in my pockets..these are occupied with other stuff, apart from a single, well protected spool..

Another way to carry the hindu thread ready to do mulitipul times is go to Wal Mart or a fabric store. There you will find a bag of a bout 50 small flat pieces of card stock cut into the shape of a spool. They are flat so do not take up much room at all. No room really. Just make up a few spools of thread with those and you are all set.

I got that idea from Alan Alan of England over twenty years ago.

I have to agree with Pete and Jeff that gypsy floss with dental floss is the way to go. I've been wanting to learn the gypsy routine for 15 years but never got around to finding the right thread etc. I have Gary Ouellets glow thread version and the teaching package is awesome. Then I saw somone at the MagiFest this past year. Can't remember his/her name (husband and wife team) but they did the dental floss version and put out the instructions in their notes ("From kiddies to corporate") I learned it and it is now my favorite trick (after 20 years, that means a lot to me). I am a lawyer by day and carry the floss with me everywhere I go. When I do strolling or close-up, I have 4 floss containers set up and ready to go. The re-set takes 30 seconds once you get it down. People go nuts for it and it's easy to carry.

Reminds me. Wound up at the table with a billionaire one night for dinner. And right in the middle of dinner he whipped out some dental floss and flossed while we were all eating.

Argh...

I just saw that video again!
http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=275
It is exactly the same as Maximillian Londono's that did develop it many, many years back..maybe even around 1975 or so!
Still Mike Wong might have reinvented it..I don't dare to say he *stole* the idea/routine, but it WAS published and invented by Londono a long time ago!

Once again, the classical handling of the hindu-thread is a much cleaner, more pleasing handling, BUT, the Londono approach makes it instantly repeatable as the same *thread(s)* are used again and again..no new material gets in use..that of course IS an advantage over the classical approach..still, having known that method for a such long time, having a friend that does perform it..I still stick to the classical approach..it is much more gracefull, also having in mind, nothing worthwise comes easy!!

PS. funny enough even the color of the thread in Londono's and Wongs version is the same..red..
I just wonder!!!!

A tip..
As most will know, the hindu thread is also described in one of Al Bakers books, in the marconick book and many others..
BUT, here is the tip..
Don't use the figure 8 configuration when preparing!!!!
It will sooner or later fold up!!
Just roll it around your left first finger (instead of as a figure 8 over 2 fingers) and later *twirling that *roll* after taking it of the finger and folding the well known S-shape before securing it with 2-3 extra windings of thread. aso.
I assure you..ever since I used that preparation, way back since around 1980 or so, it not once fouldet up!
And I had spools prepared laying around for years before using it..
There is more to that preparation re how to secure that bundle safely on the spool, but play with it yourself and find out..a tip is that a single winding of the *rest*-thread will secure it to the spool and therefron drag the restthread straight away to the end of the spool winding it up there, therefrom with a *sharp* track to the core of the spool and here 2 windings around the core, still leaveing a couple of centimeters free..
I secure those windings on the core with wax ( I earlier used a slit, but that does *floss* the core which normally is a cardboard type).
That wax is there permanently ansd stays always on the core..
IF you are a user/handler of the classical version it is easy to figure out what I mean..
it works safe and 100%..

Dental floss is the best in my book because the wax means the prep work and the ball of pieces will stick together perfectly. Also, I just wind the floss around my little finger and then basically wad the ball up and I'm set to go. I've heard that tangling can be a problem if you do this trick but I haven't run into that problem (yet). Gary Ouelett's version also teaches the prep in detail so tangling is not an issue.

Avoiding tangling is another *trick* to be used during preparation - I'm talking about the classic version.
One simply has, after having withdrawn the needed thread from the spool, to run along it with thumb and forefinger and so getting it 'straightened' out, so it isn't *twisted* around its own axis. Then it later will give no problems re tangling.

Londono's "Eternal Thread" is good and requires 5 strand embroidery floss. Once you are setup, you are good to go for many performances as the handling automatically resets the trick.

I prefer using the floss unwaxed, verus waxed as explained in Londono's instructions. Unwaxed floss puffs up as you "destroy" it -- waxed strands of floss have a hard look.

As far as I know the using the dental floss in the Hindu Thread trick has been credited to Lonnie Chevrie if I'm not mistaken. I think Charles Greene printed his version in a Genii a while back. You can find it in one the Magic Menu books. That particular trick is quite the fooler. I remember seeing a local guy do that effect when I was about 12. I thought I knew everything about magic. I think the extent of my card sleights included the glide, a double undercut, and a double lift. I saw that gypsy floss and realized I got a long way to go. Luckily I still feel that way 13 years later.

Regards,

Gerald T

To all interested, you can see the description of gypsy thread directly on the internet on http://goodtricks.net/hindu-gypsy-thread.html and from reading the posts above you can easily follow the trick.

IMHO the Dragon Thread is better. They are both equally simple to perform, no real sleight of hand required, but in the Dragon Thread you can show your hands empty before, in the midlle and after the trick. You can't say that about the hindu thread/gypsy thread.

And I honestly can't see from a performance perspective why anybody thinks the Gypsy thread has a much clearer handling and display than the Dragon thread. It's basic in both routines: a thread is shown, broken into pieces, crumbled into a ball and restored. Actually the Dragon thread has not only the advantage of you can show your hands clean during performance, but Wong (I don't know abount Londono) actually repeats the trick twice in the same performance, meaning you perform, torn-restored-torn-restored in one routine, and actually that enhances the effect and makes it totally mind baffling. That cannot be done with the Gypsy thread.''

My vote>: Dragon thread.

At the above URL is the most sloppy, badest description I've ever seen re the Hindu-thread.

There is much more to it in preparing the thread and equally in doing the 'switch'..

To do the Hindu-thread correctly, is a work of art!

That description is useless...

There are so many fine points one NEED to obey already during the preparation.

These finer points are NOT even described in the booklet Gary Ouellet released re the Hindu-thread, neither in Lewis Gansons Teach in series....
Good for that...

I'm happy you and so many others prefer the Dragon handling..
Use it..
Makes me really happy

Hi Werner, I wasn't suggesting that was all there were to it, I just released the link to let people know what the routine was about.

Werner, you write about the Gypsy/Hindu thread "There are so many fine points one NEED to obey already during the preparation." Did it occur to you that the same goes for the Dragon Thread, nobody said it should be done the Wong way?

Needles to discuss, most of us strive for perfection, and I'm here to become wiser. So Werner since the finer points are not released by Ouelette or Ganson, then maybe you can direct the curious one's toward the right sources. It's hard to discuss something if somebody claims there is a better version, and the source of that version is not published. It'll be the same if I claimed that I saw a much better version of the Dragon Thread. Such an argument tend to end all discussion unless I direct people to it, so that they can form their own opinion.

Please enlighten us.

Sorry, the *real* and surefire way re preparation isn't yet described anywhere AFAIK, the best 'switch' however is described in Gansons Teach in, at least it is very very close to what I consider to be the best.

This doens't mean there aren't other equally deceptive ways, I know there are.
Do a search here on the forum typing .

hindu

in 'Search by Keyword(s):' and

werner g. seitz

under

'Search by Username:'

and you'll find around 30 threads with discussion re the hindu-thread.
I can't even remember if I tipped some of the real secrets re preparation there, I think I did. Might though be difficult to understand without pictures, but worth a try..
Se especially:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3766083

Re handling there is on tip at:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=3767370