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Yaniv Deautsch Special user Israel 529 Posts |
It's seems to me that most if not all mentalists are really just doing a magic show dressed as a mind reading show.
"You have four keys in your pocket" Who cares? "Your Id number is 154276" Who cares? How about really reading their mind? Dealing with hard core issues. Telling people about matters that no one else knows. Telling people "naughty" things about themselvs {you could whisper it in their ears}. Think about it. A real mind reader will not tell people boring stuff {and please don't tell me about the actor who can read the phone book. That's not the point}. A real mindreader will scare people with his knowledge. Will always be one step a head. Yaniv Deautsch |
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McCritical Regular user 156 Posts |
Why not confront the spectator with information that he would typically deny. Leave it up to the audience to determine whether you've just read his mind or the spectator is lying through his teeth. Statements like "I see you're cheating on your wife," or "You really need to stop stealing from work," would shake things up a bit in your performance.
Should a spectator claims that he's not doing the things you're accusing him of (and they most undoubtably will), all you need to do is confidently remind the audience that most thieves and cheats will try to lie their way out of a situation. You then need to taunt them by identifying their physical reactions with the common attributes of a dishonest person caught in the act. (i.e. "Look me in the eye and say that!" "Do you always sweat like this?" or "An honest man needs no explainations") The downside of this routine is an obvious adversarial relationships that you will develop with unwitting members of your audience, and an increased potential for physical harm. The advantage is that you can claim ALL HITS because you knew the spectator would try to lie his way out of the situation anyway. At that point it's up to the crowd to determine whether he's guilty or not, and your performance to prove that he is. A psychic Dr. Laura routine...that ought to pack them into the seats. |
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Please tell me you're saying that tongue in cheek...please. If you weren't, I can only strongly urge anybody reading this who might have the idea to try this to NOT. BAD IDEA. VERY BAD IDEA. As a mentalist, what we do is really a very threatening thing (i.e., reading a person's innermost thoughts). You MUST have their trust that you won't betray them, that you'll be kind, that you're honest, you won't insult them, etc., or you will be fighting a losing battle with your audience. I wrote about this to great length in my book Ramblings & Revelations, and if there's one piece of advice I hope that everybody who reads the book gets out if it, that's the one.
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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Gary Veteran user Market Harborough, UK 367 Posts |
It's fair to say that mentalism routines often generate the 'so what' response. They can be samey, one just has to look at the number of prediction effects alone, but surely this is all down to the performer?
I believe mentalism can be edgey, invasive - even uncomfortable at times leaning toward the bizzare, but never, ever patronise, insult, criticise or embarrass. If on the otherhand you are looking for a way to intimidate and alienate your audience, this is certainly a way to do it.
"I can see clearly now, the brain has gone"
- Anon |
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Kardenni Regular user Orlando Florida 116 Posts |
I think we should keep more into the entertainment value of mentalism rather than the scary real mind reading stuff Yaniv was talking about.
Be a friend to your spectators not the man that knows your inner most secrets. |
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mindgames Veteran user 389 Posts |
when the audience say "so what?", means you not performing it well, guessing simple things can be very entertaining...
if you can make it entertaining! when you want to do real stuff, then learn cold readings! or... do it both. Agree?
I READ MINDS.... YOURS TOO.
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McCritical Regular user 156 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-07 23:47, Andy Leviss wrote: Quick question: Do any executives from the Fox network ever visit this board? Actually, a better concept would be to have a precognative bit where you predict unnaturally short life-spans for certain members of the audience. Death always raises a few eyebrows, and you could turn a mentalist act into a game of emotional Russian Roulette. It gives whole new meaning to Gardner's method of "progressive elimination." ....also tongue in cheek. |
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Regarding the "so what" response (which can also be said of magic too)Gary said;
"...surely this is all down to the performer? " I fully agree. Good mentalists have been revealing personal information in their acts for years anyway, but not in a negative way. And the odd dramatic fake answer to non existant question has long been a part of question and answer acts. Paul. |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
1. "You have four keys in your pocket"
Who cares? 2. "Your Id number is 154276" Who cares? Both these are fantastic things if a stranger tells you that. There are no mentalists that say things like that. How did you come up with these examples? 3. How about really reading their mind? Telling people about matters that no one else knows. The problem is no one can do that... 4. A real mindreader ...Will always be one step a head. Again, there are no one that can do that, so why mention it? :confused: Mikael |
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Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts |
Agood performer will build up what they are doing and make their audiences care about what they are doing. Remember, it is easy to do mentalism.........................poorly and is the main reason that so many find it boring and dull. It takes a strong, dynamic personality to excite an audience about what they are doing. I can honestly say that my audiences never say "big deal".
PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
There's an old saying in the business world... LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!
What Yaniv is wanting/suggesting for Psi work is closer to the role of what a Reader can accomplish (albeit, in a more gentile manner... even I'm more subtle than the apparent wrecking ball mode posted.) HOWEVER, when a Reader (who should have some solid Counseling & Psych credentials to their merit) reaches in and pulls out "the dirt" their intention is to help the client "Heal" their life and life circumstance... to help the see things from a different perspective that hopefully, will bring about positive changes. This is what I do with my application of the Louise Hay references (book "You Can Heal Your Life") I have pulled out some dark issues on spectators in showrooms. When I do, it is typically not stated as an "attack" on someone's character and is intentionally generalized. The manner by which I'd do such a Reading neither confirms nor negates things I suggest but does impose upon the mark, forcing them to do some thinking... soul searching. I've had hardened gangster types break down in tears because I was able to see into their soul and troubled past... I've also gained their trust and support as an end result of such demonstrations. HOWEVER, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU DO IN EVERY SHOW OR EVERY MARKET... there is a right time and place for all of it and too, NOT EVERYONE CAN GET AWAY WITH DOING IT! The Dr. Laura thing mentioned above struck me as interesting, in that I was seriously looking into that exact concept for a Radio show some time back... it's still on the books as a possible project but not anytime in the near future. YES! A great deal of those bearing the title of "Mentalist" on thier cards AREN'T! They are magicians doing mental magic and fooling themselves into thinking the public don't see through what they're doing. I'd bet, if a poll were taken... an honest judgement by laypeople, less than 15% of those doing mentalism styled work would be recognized and sustain by the public as being on the up and up vs. magicians doing tricks. Why? That's a very big can of worms I don't want to go into right now... we'll just chalk it up to the habit of thinking like a magician and Magician's Guilt and leave it there... One other note on this however... Doing Bizarre Magic is NOT the same as being a Mentalist. Whereas many Bizarrest do some mentalism or paranormal type manifestations, it is not the same. Yes, I have a growing reputation as a "Mentalist/Psychic Entertainer" because some of my shows and most of what I write on deals with said field. In truth I'm a bizzarest and have been for most of my career... even when I did big illusions. Anywho... that's my two-cents worth
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Necromancer Inner circle Chicago 3076 Posts |
To get back to your concerns, Yaniv:
You want to see mentalists affect their audiences in ways that are more emotional than revealing the serial number on a bill. You're in good company. Through the years, there have been numerous mentalists striving to do precisely this. The most powerful mentalists of today continue to use their excellent stratagems. As noted above, the Q&A act is a classic for appealing to the audience's emotions, and bringing in startling pieces of information that could only (?) have been obtained through psychic means. Some of these revelations can be quite sensational, and often are, by design. For some good sources, check out Earle's tape and Anderson's routine. Pseudopsychometry is another powerful presentation. Done properly (ie, as a display of uncannily reading audience members' pasts and personalities through contact with their personal possessions, and not just as a "who-has-what" routine) is an opportunity to affect an audience as a "real" mindreader/psychic could. Waters covers this with some detail in Mind, Myth & Magick. Another key to emotional involvement in mentalism is audience participation -- and not in the usual magic-act sense (could you take a card, miss?); some of the most powerful plots in mentalism involve helping audience participants unlock their own mental powers. Geller had people fondling spoons. Richardson (in Theatre of the Mind) has people divining serial numbers. Anderson even has a whole book of presentations that fit this concept. Finally (and excuse the length of this post), even if you do none of the above, the bottom line on being an emotionally engaging mentalist is gravity. If you appear to be honestly and wholeheartedly serious about your "powers," then your audience will be, too. To invoke a recently televised example: remember David Blaine walking up to people and telling them psychologically forced playing cards? A big trick? No. A potential "so what?" Absolutely (it's a "card trick," after all). But he was serious as the devil. And as a result, his participants will remember those moments for the rest of their lives.
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!), Cut & Color, Hands-Off Multiple ESP (HOME) System, Rider-Waite Readers book, Zoom Pendulum ebook ...
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
>Another key to emotional involvement in mentalism is audience participation -- and not in the usual magic-act sense (could you take a card, miss?); some of the most powerful plots in mentalism involve helping audience participants unlock their own mental powers. Geller had people fondling spoons. Richardson (in Theatre of the Mind) has people divining serial numbers. Anderson even has a whole book of presentations that fit this concept. <
Niel is very much correct in this. Since I first "got into" the whole mentalism thing I sought to get away from the old "I have the superior mind" thing associated with many of the yesteryear acts. As much as I can I put "the power" into the hands of the spectators. Even to the point of developing technology that does so... (I have to be careful here but...) For about a year now I've been playing with a concept for my Murder Mystery shows that allows a real spectator to take on the personna of a Gypsy... she first names the victim via a simple L&D test using a "Scrying Bowl" but then, we dump some ink from a pen or ink well found at the scene of the crime, into the shallow bowl of water and give it a mix... suddenly you see this spectator loose all color in their face as their eyes go wide and in a nervous voice, they reveal the Motive behind the crime... This bit delivers a kind of dual factor... the lady I use in the routine sees and experiences one thing (and it's nothing close to anything you've seen or read about, so don't go there! -- New Technology all the way!)the audience's reaction to her emotions and "shock" is the other side of what I am seeing gain from. Similarly, I'm putting "the power" into her hands and relying upon her reACTion... The bottom line advantage in all this is very simple; I've stroked the patron's ego... I do this with several people in different ways. Any good negotiator knows that the best way to "Win Over and Influence Others" is to feed their ego... to put the power in their hands. The recipical is just as cool... THEY WILL TALK GOOD ABOUT YOU AND THE GOOD TIME THEY HAD IN YOUR SHOW. Hope I made sense, I was trying to make a point without tipping too terribly much. Have fun!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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McCritical Regular user 156 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-08 08:59, Mikael Eriksson wrote: Can anyone actually make a coin pass through their palm without "compensating" for the laws of physics that make those stunts impossible? With the amount of research available on the internet in psychology, linguistics, semiotics, probability, and statistics, these 5 fields alone could produce an amazing wealth of new material that may satisfy Yaniv's challenge. |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-08 13:23, McCritical wrote: McCritical, when I wrote that no one can read minds, I did not talk about real mindreading, my point was that no one can fake anything that looks like the real thing would. And there are no mentalists that are so good that they are always one step a head. It´s not enough to use coldreading lines, and get hits. To do what Yaniv describes takes more accuracy, and you must be able to repeat it for the same person, with other facts that also is correct. Mikael |
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Yaniv Deautsch Special user Israel 529 Posts |
If you can't read minds,don't call yourself a mind reader!
Yaniv Deautsch |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-08 18:09, Yaniv Deautsch wrote: If you mean me, I don´t call myself mindreader. And if you can read minds, then you have your future income secured. I would like to see just one mentalist that can do things like this without the use of or mentioning cards, numbers, colors etc., but instead just told the audience member what she is thinking. Mikael |
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Yaniv Deautsch Special user Israel 529 Posts |
I once,about one or two years ago read an article about a media personality.
Every time the reporter wanted to ask her a question she would answer her before she even began to ask what she want... How come I never read similer piece about some mentalist? Yaniv Deautsch |
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Mikael Eriksson Inner circle None of your business 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-08 18:37, Yaniv Deautsch wrote: Can we trust what we read in the papers? If we can in this case, did it happen repeatedly in ohter interviews too? If it did, you may have something. I have to admit that I too have seen a person do a similar thing. Years ago in Sweden there was a program called "Gaster med gester", maybe other swedes can confirm what I´m going to tell about. In that show artists were going to guess whole meanings (charades). There was this lady, Jeja Sundstrom, who repetedly, time after time, show after show, in a totally mindblowing way guessed correctly miles before anyone else had a clue. It was like sometimes she could see the answer before her eyes. To understand that this charade is about a bunny is one thing, but to say the word bunnydoll when nothing that hinted doll had been showed, and the only thing the person doing the charade had done was to put two fingers above his head, is next to unexplainable. she did these things regularly. I guess I don´t have to mention that the word actually was bunnydoll. Of course it can be explained via coincidence and so on, but... Mikael |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-08 18:09, Yaniv Deautsch wrote: Read minds or thoughts? I do read thoughts... anyone familiar with and adept at Muscle Reading does this and, legally/scientifically speaking, IT IS THE REAL THING. Once you do figure out how to do what you are so focused on Yaniv, please tell us where you're performing or send me a video The term of "Mind Reader" is pure show biz BS hype. It is not actually intended to be taken literally, it was a term of reference denoting ESP or more specifically Telepathy before the public got so educated that the fantasy of mesmerism, swami's that could discern thoughts, etc. were common within the conscience of the average patron. I honestly don't know why this is becoming such an "issue." According to Robert Nelson however, the fact that Victorian era German law forbad the use of trickery in shows or demonstrations of supposed psi/spiritualistic prowess and did in fact sustain the art of "Aggetated" Muscle Reading (a.k.a. Hellstromism) as being a legit demonstration... well, I'd say you found the act you're looking for. A true adept of this skill can do amazing things and folks will even swear you never touched them... which, in the more advance stages of understanding, YOU DON'T HAVE TO. Just some food for thought... BTW... I fully support the idea of doing material that is as clean and "Like a real psychic would do it"... I loathe pre-show work or anything that could remotely be constrewn as trickery (unless that's my intent in the routine.)
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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