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mike gallo Inner circle 1341 Posts |
Mike, didn't Vernon and Findley have a three coins across routine (two silvers and a copper, but they all go) published in the Chronicles?
When abouts did that one come about? Curtis, I'm not aware of the Findley routine...and yes, Vernon did have 1 which certainly pre-dates Jennings. Jennings routine however, was based on Vernons Ball and Net routine. Looked real good in Larry's hands! Mike |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Sorry, it's actually spelled "Arthur Finley", no "d". You know, of tent vanish fame.
I'll go look it up. It's supposed to be the source of the "in-the-hands HPC" using the backpinch. And it uses the first Bertram steal from "Passing the Half bucks" I recognize the routine you're talking about, it was published as "The Balls in Net with Coins" in "Larry Jennings on Card and Coin Handling". However, there is another routine in "Classic Secrets" using four coins posing as three, I believe, called "Standup Flying Eagles". That routine resembles the Vernon/Finley routine. I'm not sure what comes first, if that matters. Back on track, Vernon stuck with five coins for his "Champaigne Glass" routine, primarily because he wanted to end with the star. Fred Kaps' Coins to Glass routine used Four coins. John Ramsay's Coins to Glass used four visible coins. The Cylinder and Coins used four. But it's always been TWO in the hand, ONE in the pocket, or has it? What about "Hopping Half"? David Roth does Okito Box magic with four, Portable Hole with three, "Purse and Glass" with six, "The Planet" with Four, "Tuning Fork" with six, "The Rainbow" with three, and "the Legendary Four Coin Trick" with three, for the most part. And so?
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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mike gallo Inner circle 1341 Posts |
I have notes on this from Larry. If you and I are on the same page, he uses the pop-up move as a major technical element - is that what you are referring to?
Yes Paul, that be the one...and what is nice about it is that Larry also did it stand up with 2 specs. holding a hankerchief as one would do the balls in the net. Mike |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
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But it's always been TWO in the hand, ONE in the pocket, or has it? Well, not in my presentation... Ramsay did THREE coins in the hat didn't he? Dobrina's routine used six if I recall. |
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Dan LeFay Inner circle Holland 1371 Posts |
You see...it IS a kabbalistic conspiracy to get us dazed and confused ;-)
Mr. Duncan, Is your published routine still available? I'm interested (in the way that the one-behind principle was an interesting approach).
"Things need not have happened to be true.
Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths, that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot." Neil Gaiman |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Dan,
It's Bill. I'll send you the web address via PM. H&R Magic Books carries it too. |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Bill, the Drobina epic uses 6 posing as 5. It has four phases, and a kicker.
Goshman's saltshaker routine is mostly about two coins. And there's always the Lynn pennies, that traditionally uses seven. Only three phases are possible, in my experience. So what do you guys think about the theory that multiple phase routines do nothing but dilute an effect? After all, miracles happen rarely. Miracles with variations and kickers are rarer still. Why build to a great trick when you could just start there?
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Kainoa Elite user NewArk, Delaware 424 Posts |
This is a great topic....no really. I think this idea of what we're expressing through the number of props is critical, and I especially like the idea that a three beat seems to use the basic rhythm of narrative (ala Jon's post above).
When I started magic, I stuck mainly with three coins, using four only on special occasions. But now I've totally gone the other way, I think because, for some reason, that fourth beat works with my personality in some way. But is it in the form of a good excess or just excessiveness? I mean if three completes some sort of inherent narrative quality, then does the fourth make it better (creating an extra "wow, where did that other coin come from?") or worse ("geez, stop making coins appear"). I believe at sometime I was also scarred by a girlfriend who, when I produced three would then ask if I could do a fourth (coin, not girlfriends). And depending on the routine I was in the middle of, I either could or could not. I think one of the only real reasons I use four is because when I open my hand and reveal three coins it looks okay, but when I open my hand and see four coins they look like they're spilling over the hand (excess, impossibility even). Maybe this discussion also has something to do with hand-size and visual aesthetics? |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Hmmm, how about performing four coins across but the fourth half becomes 50 pennies via the Ireland 50-Cent Trick? 53 coins across? Maybe the effect would be diluted and weakened because the rhythm would be interrupted.
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Kainoa Elite user NewArk, Delaware 424 Posts |
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On 2004-08-14 11:43, Larry Davidson wrote: Ooh....I think it wouldn't dilute the effect at all.... You know, I've been looking for an ending to a wild coin sequence I've been working on....this might be it. |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
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On 2004-08-14 11:43, Larry Davidson wrote: Shhhhh....
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Uh oh, Paul, have I reinvented? I can't tell you how many ideas I've come up with only to be told that someone beat me to it. The last time was when I shared an idea with Simon Aronson that I've used to create one of the strongest effects I perform. I was absolutely thrilled with the idea, at least until Simon told me that Marlo beat me to it and published it.
Larry D. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I'd be MUCH more impressed if someone;
Showed a half dollar in one hand, made a fist and squeezed. Put their other hand underneath but a foot below Then a stream of pennies poured from hand to hand And then the receiving hand opens and shows the half dollar back together and intact. Though such would be much closer to magic than the standard fare we find.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Jon, great idea, I can actually think of a way of performing that! Time to bust out my F/K holdout.
I think there may be value in the idea I suggested as well, though. It takes advantage of expectation, much the same way that a backfire coins across or backfire Matrix does. |
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mike gallo Inner circle 1341 Posts |
Showed a half dollar in one hand, made a fist and squeezed.
Put their other hand underneath but a foot below Then a stream of pennies poured from hand to hand And then the receiving hand opens and shows the half dollar back together and intact. Ron Bauer once showed me a gimmick that accomplishes that! Also, I once saw Larry Jennings do something very similar to that. Mike |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
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On 2004-08-15 13:43, mike gallo wrote: Shhhhhh!
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Paul, it sounds like you're leaking air!
Um, how do I become Ron Bauer's friend? If it helps, I've pretty much perfected sucking up. |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
OK, OK,
I was hoping that these things might stay hidden a while longer, that's why I keep shhhing people. It's surprising, Larry, how few people these days know what an Ireland Penny Dropper IS. And I'm really surprised, Mike, that Ron showed you the gimmick you mentioned. I have several routines that use the IPD and several other multi-coin gimmicks to produce really amazing results. For some reason, they have never been adapted or marketed to thier full potential, and I was keeping them to myself as long as possible - maybe it's time to release some of the stuff... Imagine borrowing a quarter, changing it to a nickel and returning it. The spectator wants his other 20 cents. You reach out and "grab" a handful of coins, open your hand, and they are all pennies! Of course no one wants 20 pennies, so you pick out one penny, turn your hand palm down in a fist, still holding all the other pennies. Put the one penny on the back of your hand, tap it with a pen or pencil and it visibly changes to a dime. Dump the dime off your hand in front of the spectator saying "you had a nickel, the dime makes fifteen, so I still owe you a dime. Here, pick one!" You now open your hand, and all the pennies have changed to dimes too! That is just one of several excellent effects that can be done combining these gimmicks... So please, SShhhhhh... Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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mike gallo Inner circle 1341 Posts |
Um, how do I become Ron Bauer's friend? If it helps, I've pretty much perfected sucking up.
Larry...that's how I did it ! Mike |
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
By the way Mike, If you saw Larry do it, he probably got it from Ron - Larry was Ron's student for several of his most formative years...
Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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