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G. Batson Regular user 147 Posts |
How boring, no one wants to play. There have been plenty of accusations about false advertising, yet no one can offer proof. Cowards, perhaps?
Let's see if we can get an example... Adam, Mdspark, anyone. Here's an excerpt from a Kentonism ad. Anything false here? G. ========== With Kentonism you may appear to: * Have a spectator slip into an altered state - just by looking at your business card! * Cause a spectator to choose thoughts and objects based on subliminal suggestion. * Perform a full "hypnosis " type act, without having to learn or do hypnosis. * Write thoughts down on a pad of paper, then stand back, and watch as audience members are compelled to do these things! * Apply telepathic and subliminal influence close-up or on stage. * Learn legitimate suggestion techniques, and innovative methods created by Kenton. * Includes special "subliminal" art designs to copy for your own business cards. |
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johne Special user 960 Posts |
I think the whole "appear to" pretty much can speak for itself. Reminds me of the X-ray specs I would have killed for as a young kid. LOL. Appear to see through clothes...
They really do appear to work if I wear them and hang my tongue out. LOL |
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mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
EXCELLENT analogy, johne! Laughed out loud when I read it!
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Anabelle Special user 951 Posts |
I only have Completely Cold and I like it. It's not the best, but I have tried the system and it works. For it to work super well, you need to be a decent communicator. All his other stuff I don't know, but I'm willing to try it.
Anabelle |
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David Numen Inner circle 2071 Posts |
For the record, I have Kentonism and can confirm that the following does occur, or at least appear to (but isn't that the point of mentalism and magic?).
* Have a spectator slip into an altered state - just by looking at your business card! * Cause a spectator to choose thoughts and objects based on subliminal suggestion. * Apply telepathic and subliminal influence close-up or on stage. * Learn legitimate suggestion techniques, and innovative methods created by Kenton. * Includes special "subliminal" art designs to copy for your own business cards. I haven't tried the other bits but see no reason why they wouldn't work - in the right hands. |
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Steven Evans Regular user Wrexham, North Wales. 191 Posts |
I just didn't understand Kentonism.
'The impossible I do immediately;
Miracles take a little longer' -David Berglas. |
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Svengali Regular user USA 138 Posts |
Maybe because you are interested in mentalism for only the last six months?
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David Numen Inner circle 2071 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-08-19 16:26, Steven Evans wrote: I was having this discussion with a friend elsewhere. There isn't a single product in Mentalism that DOESN'T get hyped to the hilt. Look at the Mentalism Unlimited stuff for example. I think the problem is that certain people like shiny new props and no-brainer concepts. Anything that involves thinking is often too much work which is why some stuff can get hyped to the heavens and no one complains ,whilst other stuff draws in a very strongly divided "for and against" crowd. |
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
As a properly trained hypnotist, I have to admit that while what Kenton say basically works it's all so bloody obvious to me. Kenton seems to get caught up in so much waffle that in reality what you buy could be cut down to two pages, maybe three. I've avoided buying Wonderwords, as I feel that I'll end up hitting my head off the wall saying, there he goes again with the obvious.
Still his stuff works but isn't worth his price.
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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David Numen Inner circle 2071 Posts |
What price is anything worth if you are a pro and you use something?
If you buy Completely Cold for $40 and use it in a readings at $10, isn't that worth it? If you find ONE little idea that you will use in your acts for the rest of your life what would you say it is worth? This is not specific to Kenton's work but the topic of "worth" comes up time and time again, and I think for a working pro the topic is fairly meaningless if they are going to use something. |
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Seth speaks Inner circle New Mexico 1249 Posts |
I agree, bartlewizard. Some people will continue to like Kenton's stuff, and some will continue to hate it. Personally, I found Completely Cold to be a wonderful aid in readings. It's a bit pricey, but it has already paid for itself a hundredfold for me, so how can I complain?
Kenton's reliance on linguistic deception and pure suggestion makes him a controversial figure, but I feel that he has been a profoundly positive influence on mentalism and magic, on the whole. It is a shame about SAR, though. I wish he wouldn't do that. I was planning to get that this year. <sigh> |
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
You make an excellent and true point, bartlewizard, one I have to agree with. I will add Kenton's method to my own. I still think the price is high when you compare it to such books as Ormond McGill's in which you get hundreds of idea's and principles. Or real NLP books which are far cheaper.
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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David Numen Inner circle 2071 Posts |
I agree that Kenton's stuff is expensive compared to stuff like Ormond McGill's, but I would suggest that these others' works are too cheap. We have been spoilt over the years!
Regards, David. |
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shrink Inner circle 2609 Posts |
SAR is way overrated. Just spend your money more wisely on a variety of good cold reading books, and you will be able to do similar readings with any drawing.
After a while you can make it up as you go along, based on other systems. I do it off-the-cuff these days with drawings. After a while, you do start to sense what to say. Shrink |
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
I have to admit that I prefer the good stuff kept at a high price. I usually make good buys, as I always know the effect I want to create and what I need to do it. I knew I would add Kenton's idea's in before I bought it.
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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shrink Inner circle 2609 Posts |
Good stuff comes at a high price, effort-wise, too. Study, practice, assimilate. These are the highest prices of all. I see too many mentalists who just rattle off one effect after the other. No audience interaction, no presentation, just a race to get to the next effect in case they have actually to talk to the audience.
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
Well put, shrink. Banachek made an excellent point in his book on how you can turn a simple number selection in to a whole routine about a couple and relationships.
Personally I always love a good story to go with an effect.
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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Nicholas Special user I predict that I now have 900 Posts |
The one thing that I get out of Kenton's work is that performance is everything (or almost). It seems that he often uses very simple or minimal props. I often think that if he went a step or two further, he would eliminate all props and end up doing a purely hypnosis show, which is what his techniques are mostly all about anyway.
It is as though his formula seems to be 90%hypnosis + 10% prop = his brand of magic. One question I have often asked myself is, "If someone didn't have extensive experience in hypnosis, how would one come to understand what can be accomplished through these hypnotic/performance techniques?" If we use typical hypnosis stage show technique as an example of "learning hypnosis techniques," I fear that people could get the wrong impression and that our magical or mentalism performances would look a little strange. Kenton seems to convey these ideas in a way that can be applied in a more naturalistic setting and adapted to many different styles. I think Kenton offers a lot of information in relatively little space. But is it enough information for someone that is not previously familiar with hypnosis and modern hypnosis technique? Is this why some are bored with his works while others don't get it? I don't have the answer to that. |
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Dove84 Regular user 181 Posts |
Couldn't you make the argument that performance is everything in regard to most effects? Does that change the fact that some effects are really bad and some are really good? It just seems to me that some people are selling material that's not so great and if anyone complains it's insinuated that they're not a good performer and it's them not the material. Just an observation.
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David Numen Inner circle 2071 Posts |
I have never performed Hippity Hop Rabbits. I never WILL perform Hippity Hop Rabbits, and I doubt I'll ever have an audience that would want to see me perform Hippity Hop Rabbits.
The fact that it is an old effect that has endured would suggest that people do manage to perform it successfully. I really hate kids' performers of any kind, not just magic, but having watched my nephew be entranced by some unlikely people I concede that there is a knack to it and there is a market for things like Hippity Hop Rabbits. The trick isn't bad in the market it's aimed at, and with the right presentation it is probably very entertaining to its target audience. It's the same of all tricks, mentalism is no exception. People who get into magic and mentalism get caught in this never-ending loop for the perfect effect, the one that will make them stand out, the miracle effect. Thing is, it doesn't exist. WE are the miracle. Our personality and our presentation should be what makes us, not the effect. Magic Dealers of all kinds, not just Kenton, advertise their stuff like it's the second coming because they know EXACTLY what drives the newbies into buying. Kenton has a recent release called the Mojo Grow Bag. I have read the description and to me it sounds plain corny. Much as I have loved his stuff in the past I can't ever see me wanting this effect. However, I have read the opinions of several people that I know and trust who have used this effect and are very happy with it. So who's right? Or who's wrong? All of us! Nothing suits everybody and nobody has the right to say something is an out-and-out bad trick. The trick may not suit them, they may not be sure on the handling or whatever, but I will guarantee that for every bad trick about there is a clique of people performing it very successfully. Check out Docc's works on the ball and tube and other overlooked effects and be inspired at how something that appears fairly crummy can be given the most amazing of makeovers. Regards, David. |
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