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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Dense Crowds (no, not dunce, DENSE) (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

cstreet_1986
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I have read in books and on here that people create a dense crowd. How is this achieved? do you get them to move closer together during an effect (as though in doing so would aid the trick), subtely get them closer together, or merely ask them to move closer? or do you do something else?

Thanks,


Chris
JamesinLA
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Chris,
You can ask them to move closer. Gazzo has lots of ways to do this, mostly with lines, but Gaz also gave me a way to do with it body lanuage that works. And here it is: You should not face the crowd when asking them to move in, rather you should turn your back to them as you stand at the spot you want them to move up to, indicating with your arms an imaginary line on the spot you are standing. This makes it easier for them to move up because it's less confrontational than having you looking them in the eye.

But the best way to get the crowd to be close and dense is to build the crowd that way from the start. See Gazzo's Krowd Keepers for the right way to do all this. You can order the book from the web link is at the top of this thread.

By the way, this is a very important topic because in my experience, the denser the crowd is (regardless of its size) the better your hat will be. This is a direct equation.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
cstreet_1986
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I already have the art of krowd keeping, Jim, but didn't feel as though it was explained in there.

Chris
DonDriver
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Chris,
Jim is right NEVER look them in the eye when you move a "tip"(crowd) in. When pitching Svengali decks its VERY important to have the tip up to the joint(table).
To do this I say "come up close I want you to see this "Than I look down and just motion with my hands (moving my fingers for them to come close) Never look up until you see feet. Than when you do look up and if some of the tip still haven't come close, here is a good funny line I use "You three(or what ever) put one foot in front of the other, Help me out, this isn't easy... besides I promise not to Attack for another 15 minuties"
This gets a laugh and works.
Hope this helps.
Later,Don
Mario Morris
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The first 5 folk are your hardest to stop, but if you work something small. Like the Monte, dice stacking or even the shells I find this works a treat. There is a natural reason people will draw closer simply to be able to see.
When that small hedge has first formed, well the crowd will just grow and grow. People want to see what going on and will look over there shoulders. I do look at people in the eye, more so after I got them in close I will talk to the distant folk. You won’t be able to see from there sir unless you turn your eye balls inside out and stand on your head, so on so forth.
When things are just ripe I then start to push them out.
Mario
P.S I suggest you read "The Art of Krowd Keeping" again, as Gazzo does teach on this subject very well.
Mario
JamesinLA
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Yeah, Mario is right. One place this very important subject is covered is in the routining section of Krowd Keepers. I used to have a hard time building my initial edge. Now it's easy for me. And, as Gazzo says, building your edge is the hardest part of the whole deal.

Don, great to see you here. You're back from the fair I take it. How'd it go?

Here's a picture of me having to push my crowd back rather than move them closer. It's much easier to push them back than the opposite.

Click here to view attached image.
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
JoeJoe
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Just tell them to move forward. Gesture with your arms. Don't continue until they do. If there is one person that won't move in, point to him directly and say come on in so you can get a good view too.

One thing that I don't think magicians fully understand is the reason to have a crowd move forward ... it has nothing to do with getting a dense crowd at all. It has to do with getting the audience under your control. To get them to do what you tell them to do.

If you cant get them to move forward, you are not going to get them to tip you. If they won't move forward, there is no reason to continue your show. If they won't take a few steps closer, they won't reach into their pockets to get you a tip. So the reason a dense crowd is a better tip is because a dense crowd is listening to the performers instructions and doing what the performer tells them to do.

If they are not following your instructions, they are not under your control - examine what you are doing to get them to stop in the first place, your openning routine. Is that the best routine to get the audience under your control? After you do your openning effect, will they be willing to trust you when you tell them to come closer? If your openning with knife through arm, they may be a little hesitant to move forward ... try something else.
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
RonCalhoun
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I use to teach pitchman how to do the "knife pitch". I always told them, "If you can't get someone to come up and get a free gift you sure aren't going to get them to come up and hand you Twenty dollars"
JamesinLA
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I think that getting them to follow your lead (follow your directions) is important, like moving them in or getting them to make noise. In the example of getting them to make noise, you've achieved two objectives.
1) You get them to follow orders
2) The noise they make will actract others
3) It gets them in a party mood (didn't I say 2 objectives?)

In the example of getting them closer, it also serves multiple objectives.
1) I agree, it gets them used to following your orders
2) But I disgree that's all it does. Getting the crowd to be physically close together also creates more of a herd mentality.

If the crowd is widely dispersed, it is very easy for them to walk away at a whim and not pay a dime or be only half-involved in your show. They should be close and committed.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
BroDavid
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James, I herd that!

Really, the herd mentality is something the Busker really needs to recognize, learn how to stimulate, and use to his advantage! Keep them close and connected to you, and to each other and you will have a good show, and good hat!

And don't miss out on traffic patterns and attention lanes either. Think about where to set up based on them, and then where to focus your attention (I know you engage them all visually). DO you know that most people are right handed? Of couse you do. But do you know that when people enter a room or space, they will naturally migrate to the right. This is why stores have all of the impulse items down the right hand side and big practical such off to the left.

Sometimes you don't have choices in set up. But I always try to set up near the right hand gate (when facing a venue) as that is where most people start.

Think about it. It may not ever make a difference for you. But observe a little, and learn a lot.

Exit: Ramble mode ....

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
JamesinLA
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BroDavid,
I think these are amazing points. I have never considered this! Talk more about "attention lanes" if you can and have time.

You read "Drawing a Circle in a Square," didn't you? The author wrote such an amazing and detailed analysis of Tony Vera's act. I think it would be amazing for someone to videotape a master street worker from multiple angles and then break down frame by frame the way the crowd is being worked.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
cstreet_1986
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I am currently reading The Secret Art of Magic. I think everyone should own this book. Anyhow, I feel that this book has helped me on this topic. Thanks for everyone's help,

Chris
Mario Morris
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Hi Chris
I have got to agree with you, this is a fantastic book, that has helped me alone no end.
It covers this subject matter and many others so well.
Mario
constantine
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I haven't received Gazzo DVD yet, but I was totaly dismayed by the cover of Kroud Keeper. Why are all of those people so far away? When I learned to lock a tip, I locked it to the platform. What are reasonable depths for a circle show? Also Danny seems to say that Gazzo tries to position himself downhill from the mob, go way to provide site lines to the table top for several hundred people and also makes his loading easier. I've always just naturaly seized the high ground. Working at eye level is a different trip,maybe more like birthday parties? Yuck!
Constatine 49%er
“The way of the transgressor is hard—to quit.”
—Jefferson Randolph “Soapy” Smith
Mario Morris
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There is a Gazzo DVD, what is it about?

I really mean it, is there a Gazzo DVD?

Mario
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