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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts |
At work and bored.
Plus one day I'd like to break the 100 post barrier so I can get all the secrets for free! Randy |
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Doug Higley 1942 - 2022 7152 Posts |
Very interesting opinions.
I have my voice intro service priced at $50 (for now) for everybody...it allows a big time $2500 a night Pro to spend AS LITTLE as a Birthday Party Magician...both get the Ferarri. I like being ass backwards I guess! Doug
Higley's Giant Flea Pocket Zibit
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VernonOnCoins Inner circle NYC 1978 Posts |
You're just ****ed, and maybe a little jealous, because you can't afford one...
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Bradley Morgan Special user 702 Posts |
I saw this routine when he performed it at The Kansas City Work Shop, It is just amazing. You have no clue just how much He gets out of this routine. I just laughed the whole time. Just one of those absolutely brilliant routines sure to get you lot of laughs.
It's not just a D lite your getting, its a whole act. Don't knock the price until you see it performed. Best Wishes Always, Bradley Morgan
"I do not know with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." - Einstein
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Corey K Special user Rhode Island 502 Posts |
I hate to be the Devil's Advocate here, but...
I saw Kerry perform the routine at Hank Lee's Convention a few years ago, and honestly I wasn't very impressed with it. I don't think I was the only one, because the crowd seemed pretty restless during the act. D'Lites are only fun and amusing for so long, no matter what you do with them. When he swallows them at the end it's pretty cool, but for $4500, I think I'll put a down payment on a Mercedes. Just my $4500.... and $.02
Corey King
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The Mighty Fool Inner circle I feel like a big-top tent having 2140 Posts |
Well.....I guess I asked for all this didn't I?
I've read every one of the posts here, and I must say, it has spurred a bit of cognitive dissonance in my original convictions. I suppose if there are effects out there which are worth thousands of dollars, non-professional magicians will of course WANT them, but they'll be priced beyond the reach of what their show / income is worth. Therefore, to GET those effects, a magician will have to improve his act & skills, work a little harder, save a little better, and by the time his show-worth / income has been increased via these methods to the point where he CAN afford it....he is now AT the acumen level where the effect would work for him. I notice some of the other 'naysayers' on this thread seem to have had second-thoughts as well. So I guess my little tantrum had positive effects on the rebound. Learning experience for all, and that's probably one of the purposes this room is meant to serve. I'm sure there's a clever 'moral' to all this....I'm just to tired to think of it. Arividerci!
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
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Bball5630 Regular user 140 Posts |
Okay. The argument that products are priced high to keep the good secrets out of amateur's hands, doesn't hold water. Maybe Tarbell should be priced in the millions, if that's the case. As for the reason, that you're buying a routine. Nope, doesn't work for me either. You shouldn't buy a routine, unless that person drops it and sells it's rights exculsively to you, even then, only if you lack originality. In which case, magic, just may not be for you. I have seen this routine as well, and it is pretty good. Earth-Shattering? No. Very funny and very entertaining, but so is Michael Finney. Should Finney sell his card on Forehead for five grand? Maybe he should, if that seems to be the norm. Also, one person on here posted that people keep comparing cost to value. That is a great point. I hate hearing buying a trick that is priced high like "buying a porsche compared to a VW Beetle" like Sven said. Or even compared to top of the line fenders. You may be suprised to hear what Joe Satriani produced his last album on. It wasn't a Fender, not even close. Price has NOTHING to do with how good a trick is. Routines? There are FISM acts you can buy on tape for thirty dollars. You want a great trick? Do you remember when Copperfield did Crazy Men's Handcuffs? Simple effect, but well-done. My bottom line is to say that by not seeing the value in this doesn't make you not a pro, I belive it makes you more of one. Knowing that you can get this type of reaction, by which ever means you want to, knowing that the performance comes from you. Not wanting to buy a routine. Or if you can pick up a deck of cards, coins, or any type of stage trick, and make a routine that makes people leave saying, "THAT WAS WONDERFUL", then you my friend have a trick as valuable or more so than this $4500 trick. If it makes you feel better slap a ten thousand dollar price tag on the side of your cardbox, have at it.
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
Bball5630:
Are you a full-time pro? Most of us realize that it takes years to perfect a routine, work out all the bugs and mechanics, find the sell points and so on. I have been doing this full-time for more than thirty years. I often find my need for new material outstrips my ability to create it, and I am not lazy nor do I lack the ability to be original. I have about an hour of good close-up material that is all my own, and about an hour and a half of good stage material that is all my own. Most of this material was worked out over many years of trial and error, and was often not featured in my major shows for at least three or four years after I began working with it. After I have done those effects, I pretty much depend on the generosity of those who sell or publish their own hard won routines. On the cruise ships, I need at least two full hours of solid, well thought out routines with funny patter that suit my performing style. If there is a third show, or I have to fill a spot in a review, that could mean another twenty minutes. I often perform for the same corporate banquet each year, some for more than twelve years. That is twelve hours of material. You may have higher standards than I, but I suspect that you may just not have the same drain on material that most professionals find in their work. Few working comics, even Robin Williams, could produce what they need by themselves and depend upon writers and collaborators to produce what they need each year. I find that most solid routines from professionals that are placed on the market are worth far more than they cost, and I am always grateful for the few routines that come out that fit my style and personality. I would gladly pay much more than asked for these, and if I could afford it, which I usually can't, I would buy exclusive rights to them. Most of the great stuff out there is worth ten times what is being charged. If you wanted exclusive rights, that could be hundreds of times what the retail price of a routine is worth. |
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niva Inner circle Malta (Europe) 2970 Posts |
Although I see Mr. Haydn's point, I kind of agree more with Bball5630.
Quote:
On the cruise ships, I need at least two full hours of solid, well thought out routines with funny patter that suit my performing style. I am sure one can find solid, well thought out material, with funny patter for far, far less. And I am sure that many people in the world have still to witness NFW and CMH, even though they are so popular with magicians. And what do we say regarding rebuilt classics that are highly over priced?? I just hope the market will not become one only for "professionals". Take a look at this show by Brother Shadow. I think this is real magic and the expenses for it are stupid. Read especally the last paragraph on page two. Think about it.
Yours,
Ivan |
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niva Inner circle Malta (Europe) 2970 Posts |
PS: Mr. Haydn, $350 for your Teleportation Device is not a lot. You could have charged double that price, but you did not. That's why I am constantly confused when I see outrages prices. I much prefer your routine. Kudos.
Yours,
Ivan |
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chappelly Special user Down Under 744 Posts |
When I first saw this I thought to myself"that's ridiculous".But ,to some high earning pros out there,it may be of great value to them and they may get rewarded many times the cost of this routine.
I use Whit Haydyn's 4 ring routine and have been for the last couple of years. I always carry the rings in my car and and am ready to perform it any time.This routine which I would never of thought of myself is now worth thousands of dollars to me.If originally this routine cost thousands of dollars I never would have bought it because I wouldn't have been able to realise the usage and value I would get from it.In those days I would be complaining about the price too. So ,the $4,500 D'Lite maybe of value to some magicians,certainly not everyone.I also don't think magicians should be critical of other magicians who place high prices on their routines.It's their perogative. If you read this Whit,thanks very much for the 4 Ring Routine.It truely is worth many times what you charge for it. Chappelly |
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paraguppie Elite user Forsyth Montana! 411 Posts |
Very interesting thread! I guess I see both sides of it. Mr. Haydn has some very good points on material, and has a classy way of wording it. Nicely done sir!
I also see the other side, I just bought "Vanishing Bandana" for my kid's shows. This has got to be the funnies 3 minutes of kid material I have ever seen. The price? $30.00, pretty good if you ask me. The problem? Probably every kid show guy out there is using it. I am about the only kid show guy around here, so not a big deal for me, but you see where I'm going. I have not seen the routine in question. I have to agree that SOME material is worth that price tag. The Lemon Game, in my opinion, is underpriced. You are getting POLISHED materials. Everything that Chance Wolf puts out, underpriced. You are getting KILLER props. I would want to see the goods before buying this routine, but hey, maybe to someone it's worth it. If it's not worth it to you, you don't have to drop the cash to buy it. Everyone gets upset with what they pay basketball pros. My opinion is if they can get millions of dollars for playing a sport, more power to them. If this guy can sell these items at this price, more power to him. Will I be buying one? Nope, can't afford it right now. But, hey if you can, great! Cheers, Keith
Check me out at www.magickeith.com
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sleightofhand1 Elite user 446 Posts |
I think this is a D LITEful thread !
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
I respect and admire Whit Hayden, but I don't believe you can compare buying a guitar to buying a magic effect. I am a guitarist and I own a Gibson and a Fender along with several other guitars. If I could not afford the best guitar there are many other guitars I could buy at resonable prices. Fender and Gibson both have a complete line of guitars at all price ranges. Many are very playable and beautiful, and many laymen would not be able to distinguish a tonal or visual difference.
If I can't afford an expensive magic trick, then I simply can't use the trick. There may not be a less expensive version, and even if there are I can't buy it because that would be "unethical". A similar guitar comparison would be like; I can't buy a Fender or a Gibson and there are no cheaper guitars and even if there is I can't buy them for ethical reasons. I guess if that were the case I would have had to play the harmonica or flute. I may have never written all those songs and played at all those places, etc, etc... It may be the same way with magic. I feel that many pros would like to overprice the effects until only the elite could afford them. It makes sense on their part. They don't have to sell as many to make the same profits and there will be far less people out there doing these routines. Yes, there are plenty of other routines, tricks, and effects out there, just like there are many other, different musical instruments. But I wanted to play guitar, not something else. I don't want this $4,500 D'lite routine (I might if I saw it) but my point is that only a few will be able to get it. I know that things probably aren't going to change. In fact, I guess I don't really want things to change, because that might require another "Great Depression". I just hate to see things getting so out of hand. Not only in magic but in other areas like sports and music as well. It's relly hard for many average families to be able to attend some of these events and afford a lot of these things, and that is unfortunate. You have so many high income people in the world that can afford to pay the high prices, where will it stop? By the way, thanks to collectors and people willing to pay any price, the best Fender and Gibson guitars are overpriced too, IMO. Regan
Mister Mystery
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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts |
I understand what you are saying Mister Mystery. Just don't forget that in some areas things can be underpriced. When they are then they are viewed as worthless by those who could afford the higher price.
Randy |
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Adam Regular user UK 103 Posts |
I posted a ridiculously long thread on this topic in Food for Thought. Perhaps we can resume the discussion there (in fairness to Mr. Pollock who must keep returning to this thread only to see that nobody's talking about his routine).
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Neoglobin Elite user 460 Posts |
I think its simple : don't like the price, don't buy it. If the guy is planning to make big bucks and doesn't sell much, well then next time he'll price it more reasonable.
Done and done.
Magically Yours,
Neoglobin. |
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Sean W. Burke Loyal user Washington D.C. 300 Posts |
I think we should all follow Adam's suggestion out or respect for Mr. Pollock.
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
Thanks to Houdini's in Vegas and the other Magic Zone type shops...D'Lites have become over-exposed. Would spending 4500.00 (thats almost a new car) be worth it?
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Not to me, but some magicians will buy them. Time will tell how many will sell.
Regan
Mister Mystery
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