The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls Exposure (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Cliffg37
View Profile
Inner circle
Long Beach, CA
2492 Posts

Profile of Cliffg37
I am a science teacher by profession, and I attended a conference with a speaker who said he would show us dozens of class activities for demonstrations and conversation starters. Most of his demos were very good but would not interest you on this board.

Until he got to the cups and balls. Why he felt the need to do this at a science convention I can't guess. The quality of the cups had "cheep magic kit" written all over them, and his magic was passable but not great.

I felt ok about it, until he finished and was hit with "hey how do you do that?"

"here, I'll show you!" he said. My response of "don't do that!" was totally drowned out by the cheers.

I sat there in horror as he did a fine job of teaching the cups and balls to a LARGE group of lay persons.

I thought about apporaching him afterwards, but truthfully didn't have the guts to do it.

20:20 hindsight, but does anyone have suggestions if something like that happens again? I know that 97% of the audience will never try to do the trick, but they will all remember him next time they see it done.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right!
Rob Johnston
View Profile
Inner circle
Utah
2060 Posts

Profile of Rob Johnston
It is too bad that this occured, but unfortunately there isn't much you could do.

You could contact him and express your concern and such, but that probably won't change much.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
Pete Biro
View Profile
1933 - 2018
18558 Posts

Profile of Pete Biro
Definitely LET HIM KNOW...
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
rikbrooks
View Profile
Inner circle
Olive Branch, Mississippi
1317 Posts

Profile of rikbrooks
There is no doubt about it. You should let him know. That guy probably doesn't have a clue that he did anything wrong and is just as likely to do it again as he did then.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24279 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Here's the way to handle it. Ask him if you can attend one of his science classes again. Then you get up in front of the class with a bowl of castor beans and a mortar and pestle.

Next, you say, "I'm going to show you something really interesting today, children. It's a poison called 'Ricin.' It's made from something you have around the house, called 'castor beans.' This poison works fairly slowly, but there is no known antidote. The CIA used it during the cold war, and the Soviets used to administer it with a needle hidden in an umbrella." His eyes will get as big as saucers.

Then you say to him, "Should I continue, or should I be as irresponsible with your class as you were with my art?"
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
sarcophilus
View Profile
Regular user
Phoenix
195 Posts

Profile of sarcophilus
Quote:
On 2004-09-07 20:00, Bill Palmer wrote:
Here's the way to handle it. Ask him if you can attend one of his science classes again. Then you get up in front of the class with a bowl of castor beans and a mortar and pestle.

Next, you say, "I'm going to show you something really interesting today, children. It's a poison called 'Ricin.' It's made from something you have around the house, called 'castor beans.' This poison works fairly slowly, but there is no known antidote. The CIA used it during the cold war, and the Soviets used to administer it with a needle hidden in an umbrella." His eyes will get as big as saucers.

Then you say to him, "Should I continue, or should I be as irresponsible with your class as you were with my art?"




Nice....
The Great Blackwell
View Profile
New user
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
58 Posts

Profile of The Great Blackwell
Bill, you slay me faster than Ricin ever could! Seriously, this man is doing a great dis-service to our art and must be made aware of this fact. Please, Cliff, if you haven't let him know, please do!!
-Dave in Minneapolis

"Never trust anyone in a wedding dress, especially a woman!"
-Sam Malone
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24279 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
I have to say this about some "scientists." Some of them think that "truth" is the only thing worth knowing, not realizing that it is fantasy which inspires us to truths greater than any truths we already know.

So, some scientists believe that there should be no limitations on the sharing of knowledge. These scientists would allow the free distribution of atomic secrets. This, in turn, can result in doomsday scenarios.

If any of you recall a movie called "The Manhattan Project" or "The Deadly Game," there was a boy who made an atomic bomb by stealing plutonium from a local lab, and using homebrew electronics as a trigger. He miscaculated the effect of the radiation on the electronics, so the bomb almost detonated, thus proving that a little learning is, indeed, a dangerous thing.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Michael Baker
View Profile
Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11161 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Then show him the next days' activities describing simple formulas and shopping lists for crystal meth and cellulose nitrate.

Sadly, a scientist's function is to bring facts to light, even at the point of a cold scalpel. If this were an art or drama class, the proceedings while probably not different, would have stood a better chance of falling on caring ears and eyes.

It is likely the method exposed is at the very lowest level of the Cups & Balls range. If indeed in that form, the trick has been available to anyone with a buck or two for the last hundred years... and it is the magician who has sold the trick and written about it in books, so be careful about pointing fingers.

While I detest seeing magic dissected and laid bare by the merely curious, the truth is, much more magic is exposed through ineptness than by deliberate act. We have made magic accessible and cookie cutter in an ill-fated attempt to gain acceptance (and probably, a profit).

All in all, I believe the trick will survive. It has now for centuries, regardless of its detractors. But we may need to help it (and much other magic) along. If we keep increasing the ease of gathering information we can expect the fields to be gleaned barren... and don't forget that familiarity breeds contempt.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Laird
View Profile
Regular user
Kansas City
124 Posts

Profile of Laird
Yeah........ That's sad.
Well I'll bring the feather pillow, if someone brings a barrel of roofing tar. Then we can brainwash his audience that it was just a hoax.
Or is that stretching it??????
Another thing is who is to blame? The last Linking Ring mag. had an article about the loss of Magic Stores across the country. It's nothing to buy the DVD now. With all the websites et al.
The first thing to be lost is any real code or honor.
Hate to say it but Magic is no longer a state secret, one must not extend themselves as they did maybe "back in the day"!
Thanx for letting me share!
Thank you
It's never to late to have a happy childhold!
JamesinLA
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles
3400 Posts

Profile of JamesinLA
Don't be shy with that smuck. Let him know. He's a putz. If you know the literal translation of that, good.

Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
chrisrkline
View Profile
Special user
Little Rock
965 Posts

Profile of chrisrkline
Quote:
On 2004-09-08 03:13, Laird wrote:
Yeah........ That's sad.
Well I'll bring the feather pillow, if someone brings a barrel of roofing tar. Then we can brainwash his audience that it was just a hoax.
Or is that stretching it??????
Another thing is who is to blame? The last Linking Ring mag. had an article about the loss of Magic Stores across the country. It's nothing to buy the DVD now. With all the websites et al.
The first thing to be lost is any real code or honor.
Hate to say it but Magic is no longer a state secret, one must not extend themselves as they did maybe "back in the day"!
Thanx for letting me share!
Thank you


Of course, we don't know what level of routine the guy taught. It might have been that lowest of all levels, taught in many beginning magic sets, that are sold by the thousands in those same local magic shops to any person who walks in. If he is teaching a higher (Vernon level) routine, then that is bad, but since he exposed with a minimal compentency, he must have given the routine some consideration. I doubt the internet had anything to do with it. He could have bought Ammar's cups and balls dvd at the local shop as easily as the internet. Certainly, the local shop owner would have sold it to him.

I buy most everything from my local shop. I feel I am 100% ethical. I only perform effects that I have legally purchased. I know the rules. Our local shop person says he doesn't sell certain things to every customer that asks. But he had sold me Color Monte and the ID the first time I walked in the shop. He didn't quiz me on my ethical standards--maybe he has radar. On the other hand he did not show me any fancy Bill Malone dvds, which at the time I would not have bought anyway.

My only point is that the person who exposed was a jerk and unethical. The internet had nothing to do with it. If he cared enough to learn the routine, then any, and I mean any, local shop owner in the country would have sold the routine to him, no questions asked.

The internet has become rife with exposure sites, and it is easier to find out things than it would have been twenty years ago. But I think that the general public (other than teenage boys) are too apathetic to bother trying to find out secrets.

I wonder if the real problem are those who are new to magic, have learned a few things and then use the internet to learn effects with out paying for them. But the average layperson in not googling to find out how Reset is done. They are definately not buying 30 dollar dvds to learn the same thing.
Chris
Eric Falconer
View Profile
Veteran user
Houston
378 Posts

Profile of Eric Falconer
This is a very unfortunate situation.

Many scientists seem to think they have a monopoly on "Knowledge" or all that may be know. They certainly have explanations for everything but there are many questions still left to be answered. Most importantly "Why"... If this teacher teaches the "Uncertainty Principle" he would understand this. There is mystery in science. If there weren't then there would be no desire to seek knowledge.
No one would seek to find out more. Scientists seek daily to answer the unanswered questions. How dissapointing it would be if tomorrow they declared all questions answered and all knowledge "known". They would think their job was done but they would then be out of a job and they would be left empty... much like a child told there is no Santa Claus or when a magic trick (such as this one) is exposed to them.

This could've been a great teaching opportunity. You must point this out to this teacher. He could've explained that
"there is no such thing as magic"
"What you just saw that seemed impossible is actually quite possible"
"Just like in the scientific world around us... much of what we see seems impossible... yet we see it... This is what drives us as scientists to find out... but until we find out for ourselves... we never really 'know' anything"
"So now go out and discover for yourselves how this miracle happened.... and all the other miracles that you see around you..."

Please point this out to this teacher...

I think we all could learn a thing or two from this story...
Eric Falconer

Houston TX
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24279 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Eric:

You are right on the money with this.

One of the greatest disappointments of this millenium, so far, has been the absolute disdain certain major illusionists seem to have for the "lesser secrets" of our craft. All of us should remember that even the smallest secret is important to the person whose livelihood is based upon it.

I used to have a feeling similar to some of these people -- that there was less importance to be placed upon secrets that were readily available -- the key card, for example, which is exposed in dozens of places under dozens of names. But there is great magic that is based upon this very principle. "Red Hot Mama" would be one example.

So we have to learn to disguise the methods as they become generally known. A really great performer can fool us with things we already know.

But not all of us are really great performers. Or we may be great in one area, but not in another. So we have to protect ALL the secrets.

LaMont said "The effect is not the method." He is right. But to the layman, one explanation suffices for all the effects that are similar.

We can use this to our advantage. Or we can let it ruin our performances. The choice is often up to us.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
NabsS
View Profile
New user
Geneva (Switzerland)
97 Posts

Profile of NabsS
One of the reasons for this exposure might have been that cups and balls is one of the OLDEST tricks. If I'm right, even Roman conjurors did it, and so maybe that lecturer fealt like this trick was interesting to expose for a historical point of view. Or maybe not.

falconermagic, I perfectly agree with you. There are many things that scientists do not know, and may seem like magic to them, yet they are not illusions. I am thinking about the mysteries of the pendulum and the water diviner's stick. And of course all the important questions of life, like "How come the universe was created, and how?". An appearance out of nothingness of matter, time and energy seems like Magic to me.
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24279 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Scientists have an explanation for the pendulum and one for the divining rod as well, but an explanation may not be THE explanantion. And that again refers to what I mentioned in the previous post -- "the effect is not the method."

On my anti-exposure web page, I have the story of the boy and the butterfly. It makes for good reading.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
BradleyNott
View Profile
Veteran user
Westwood, CA (UCLA)
351 Posts

Profile of BradleyNott
Mr. Palmer,

You are my hero.

Seriously. Your responses on this topic are great and your anti-exposure site is right on.

Keep fighting the good fight and you'll continue to inspire future generations to do the same!

Brad
If you were a hotdog, and you were starving...would you eat yourself? I know I would!
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24279 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Thanks, Brad. It's a difficult battle, but we can all work together on it.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Laird
View Profile
Regular user
Kansas City
124 Posts

Profile of Laird
When I was in the Army one of the best ways to train was -Learn One, Do One, Teach One.
That has stuck with me. To teach something is the most efficient way to learn. I like teaching. I think what happened is someone got a little overzealous, enjoyed his accomplishment, and wanted to share.
There are times when I learn a new trick, and at my age it isn't getting easier, first thing I want to do is show off or share.
Granted, I use restraint and wait til I get to my Ring meeting.
Bill, FANTASTIC Cups and Balls museum. Something that should shared with all!!!
It's never to late to have a happy childhold!
Bill Palmer
View Profile
Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24279 Posts

Profile of Bill Palmer
Laird:

Thanks for the kind words about the museum.

About teaching. Yes, it is a great way to learn, but there is a danger here. Sometimes the teacher/student will not really know the truth of what he is teaching, and may pass bad habits on to the new student. This is unlikely, of course, with something as simple as a basic cups and balls routine, but in other, more complex items, it can cause a student to learn bad habits from the start.

One of my friends pointed something out to me in a PM, so I'll pass this on. The real shame of this is that the teacher was not teaching magic. He was teaching a method that is used in a magic trick.

His exposure did not teach the moment of astonishment or how to create the feeling of magic in an audience. There were other ways he could have illustrated the feeling of accomplishment that one has when learning something new, without ruining the moment of magic.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls Exposure (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL