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dynamiteassasin Inner circle Naval Air Facility, Atsugi, Japan 1158 Posts |
I'm having a problem ditching the coins I vanish when I use a method that does not leave me clean. Some people like to reproduce it but as a strolling magician, I think leaving it gone gets better reactions.
I have no problems for Revolution (Kevin Parker) and Angel Coins (Kirk Kokinos) but how do I ditch a coin in vanishes that leave me dirty? Like the French Drop: how do I ditch the coin so I can show both of my hands clean? I have come up with one method so far. As my closed fist pretends to conceal a coin, I put the other hand in my pocket and leave the coin there. I say, "look at my invisible wand," as I pull my hand out pretending to hold one. Then I strike the closed fist and say, "do you know why I have an invisible wand?" Most of them will say no. "Because it's a perfect partner for an invisible coin." Then I show both of my hands empty. Do you have other ideas to clean your hands and get rid of that coin? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
You can use a very simple method, but it has to be incorporated in your routine.
I'm thinking of disposing it in the other breast pocket of your jacket. It HAS to be done *inside*, eg. incorporated in the moves/routine. Like your right hand with the palmed coin is going up your left sleeve/arm gesturing, whilst explaining, "the coin travels up my sleeve, down my back and into my right trousers pocket; it's that easy." Or similar lines, whilst your right hand gestures up your arm, and without pause drops the coin into your other breast pocket and continues in front of your upper body, right under your head to your own right shoulder. This is done whilst remarking, "down my shoulder" and you continue that gusture with the right hand down your right side of the body pointing to your right trousers pocket. I DON'T use this strategem myself, so take it only as a suggestion for further thoughts. A lot of magicians use that move. The best way I think would be the Topit. Do a search on this forum for the Topit if you don't know it. Sleeving is a solution too, but it takes a lot of practise. Your own mentioned method isn't that bad. I would suggest that you start it with an upward move of your hand (the one palming the coin) gesturing with your streched forefinger, saying, "Oh, before anything happens to that coin or it vanishes, I have to use my invisible magic wand" or a similar line. You have to end that line (keep it shorter then outlined above) before your hand enters the pocket. They have to know beforehand *why* you enter your pocket. That's the key to deceiving them with that move. So fist up with your right forefinger, right after the fake pass, pointing from right to left (whilst saying, "Ohh") in a pointing guesture to draw their attention. This is combined with the remark and then straight down to your right trousers pocket after finishing your line. NOTE: You have to use head-misdirection/direction during these gestures up your arm when ditching the coin!!!!
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Lots of ways to handle this. The best is to keep the times when you need a complete vanish down to a minimum. Not too hard, really, when you consider all the other things that could happen to a coin. After all, simply vanishing a coin is not much of an effect.
For the times when you must, just a little hint taught by Slydini: before you go to your pocket, make sure the audience knows why you're doing it. If you're using the invisible wand, that's what the trick's about. Mention it, take it from your pocket and show it, when they doubt you, then put it back in the pocket while you find something, oh, maybe this coin, to demonstrate the wand's power. Do the pass to free your hand to get the wand. Continue as intended. This is your first lesson in "seeing the magic from the spectator's point of view." Now, instead of just showing them a clever trick, you're "proving" you're not crazy. More entertaining, and they're less likely to notice the false transfer. Yes, that's how much thought Slydini put into something as "simple" as a pocket ditch.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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paulajayne Inner circle London England 1160 Posts |
Hi,
Topit. Paula
Paula Jay - Magic to Remember -
--------------------------------- I once wrote a book on elephants, I think paper would have been better. ---- |
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Frog Prince New user Japan/Tokyo 70 Posts |
Hi!
I'm looking for complete coin vanish also. There are so many ways to do that. When I'm wearing jacket, I always use sleeving. It's easy and comfortable for me. But in the summertime, If I'm not wearing a jacket, my favorite is Gregory Wilson's "Pitch and Ditch" or "All Around Vanish." I hope it helps.
Croak..Croak..
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
Curtis,
Excellent lesson. Regan
Mister Mystery
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twistedace Inner circle philadelphia 3772 Posts |
Like Curtis said, Have a REASON for going to your pocket and make it known beforehand.
Another Slydini complete vanish can be seen in the Stars of Magic where you leave the left coat pocket open with a handkerchief. You do the coin from the right elbow once, then follow it up by producing it from the left elbow, then think of the position of your hands and use your imagination as to what goes on next. Also a Spider vanish works very well to get them to believe your hands are empty. When you use a spider vanish with a reason to go to your pocket, the magic is even stronger I think. Another way to do a complete vanish isn't really to COMPLETELY vanish it but load it on the spectator themselves. Apollo and Gregory Wilson have tons of work on it. The shoulder is a nice place to ditch a coin. |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts |
Misdirection goes a LONG way in coin magic. I misdirect them and ditch it in my pocket or lap.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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mike gallo Inner circle 1341 Posts |
First off, you only need to completely vanish the object due to your guilt. With the proper attitude, you will--as far as your audience is concerned--be clean! But if you feel the need to be that clean, I suggest studing the works of Ross Bertram. He was a master of ditching coins! Bertram had more ways to ditch a coin than most magicians I know can vanish one!
Mike |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: Ross Bertram?
On 2004-09-08 13:40, mike gallo wrote: Again something I overlooked?? I not only have his book but also his videos, and I never took notice of what you mentioned. I need more hours a day to also check this out. I will..out of pure interest. I don't need that ditching, but I simply want to know about the ways he has opened. Anybody have some hours for sale at a favourite price? Maybe I have to stop posting here to save time and catch up with all the stuff I overlooked.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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saturnin Special user Montreal, Canada 964 Posts |
Do you wear a tie???
If you do, then I strongly suggest you check Dan Garrett's material, or send me a PM. Ronnie Lemieux Montreal Canada
There is no road to happiness,
happiness is the road! |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: Dan Garrett?
On 2004-09-08 14:13, saturnin wrote: Well, I remember that thingy as an invention of Bob Driebeck of Holland and popularized by Fred Kaps, IF we are talking about the same thing.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Karl Miller Elite user 494 Posts |
Here are a few complete vanishes I use on a regular basis:
-Bobo's Complete Vanish -Steve Draun's Perfect Vanish -I also use the Muscle Pass in conjunction with the sleeves, topit and breast pocket to clean up a routine -Jay Scott Berry's Direct Toss -Using "The Flick" to load a coin under a tabled object -Holdout I don't have time to list where all of this is in print, but please feel free to PM me regarding the sources for the above material if you are interested. Hope this helps! |
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dynamiteassasin Inner circle Naval Air Facility, Atsugi, Japan 1158 Posts |
Thank you for your advice guys. Maybe I'll try getting a topit. I know how it works but I don't know what it looks like.
I know Gregory Wilson's All-Around-Vanish and I use it a lot but people tend to be suspicious when I start patting myself looking for the coin. Maybe a topit is the answer for me. Thanks again for all the suggestions. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
The Topit IS the best way, if and when you wear a jacket!
It can also be used to get rid of gimmicks, like the one for the colour-changing hanky, simply to get rid of it and continue with the show. Not as a big deal, but as a practical way of freeing your normal pocket, IF one works without a table and one normally does so, when doing that routine. The Topit has a 1000 uses; the problem is restricting its use. Using the style of the Ammar design is tempting to overdo it, still (I don't know Jay Scott Berry's) I think one should use the Ammar design whenever possible.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
A topit can become a crutch.
Mike and Curtis have are right. Concentrate on routining the effect to hide the coin from their minds... not their eyes. Remember, a coin vanish isn't a trick. It's part of a trick. Watch Goshman's video or Mike Gallo's Siamese Coin video, or Curtis' purse frame routine on Palms Of Steel one. Each will show you how to direct the audience's perception of where the coin or coins are when they're "gone." |
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el toro Veteran user Across the atlantic 325 Posts |
Troy Hooser has a nice way of ditching a coin in his "DesTROYers" book. But it requires wearing a jacket.
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SOHartist Loyal user Ft. Myers, Florida 211 Posts |
Well, I wear carpenter pants a lot, so I'll do a false transfer into my left hand, then drop my right hand to the side and drop the coin into the pocket on the side by my thigh. It's my "topit." It works wonders. I mean think of it: the spec. just saw the magician in short sleeves, no special clothes, and boom the coin is TOTALLY gone, and you're clean.
just my 2 cents, mike |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: That system of yours works as well as anything else!
On 2004-09-09 12:32, SOHartist wrote: It's not only *good enough*, but it is as good as it can get! Just MHO. Only one thing: when dropping the right hand all attention MUST be on the left hand. Use your body, your body language and raise the left to blow on it. For example, lean towards your left, whilst the right just drops slightly to do the ditch. Right thereafter raise the right again with a magical guesture to your left that opens, or similar movements. Hope you get the idea.
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Doug Peters Special user I have a life, so I only have 591 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-09-08 13:40, mike gallo wrote: Listen to "da man"! The right question is not "how" but "when" should I ditch the coin!
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
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