I am going to start building these and possibly selling them for a price that will be much lower than the normal $300. Does anyone have any ideas on selling them? They will be custom made with the top being made of wood and the base as well unlike the other tables with a metal tripod. I will build some with a timer, some with just a switch possibly " not the greatest way to do it", some with a switch connected to an invisible cord, and only a few with remote controls if anyone would want them. The tables will be able to break wine glasses, lightbulbs, or anything made out of glass that isn't extremely heavy. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Send me a pm, so we can talk about it. I might be able to sell tem here in portugal
Alex

Are you part of a magic group? How about selling them direct to several magic stores? Pm me if you want.

John

First to Alex, I will consider that once I start getting them built. I am going to start building sometime in the next 2 weeks. To John, I will be selling some to the local IBM here in Memphis but there is only 2 magic shops here and they do not carry anything big. They have to order anything that is not a simple trick. I am considering to selling them to some other shops here in TN though. I will also be putting them up for sale on ebay possibly, but I'd rather keep them being sold solely to magicians only, not to the public. I will also sell a couple on here. I'm considering opening up a website and posting them on there. That way people could choose from a completed model or have the choice to pre-order one with the features they would want. The models with the remote would be special order as I won't build one unless somebody really wants it as the parts are costly. Thanks for the advice to the both of you.
Daniel Copperfield

Posted: Sep 11, 2004 1:30am
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Anybody else have any advice? I have 2 working prototypes and one can break bottles. Does anyone think these will sell?

Who wants to fool with broken glass?

Maybe a mentalist but there are already these effects out there that do not need carrying another table.

First of all if you cover the glass you won't have to fool with a bunch of glass. These are not just for mentalists. You can use the one's that I will be building for a regular stage table throughout your whole show if you like. You could use them as a close-up table. There wouldn't be a need to carry around another table, but I can see your point of view. At anytime you could use the table to break a glass or what have you. There are actually many uses for this table, and all the others, beyond breaking glass. When I do produce them I would send each buyer a few routines for them to use the table for. Anyone else think these would sell?

If the advice you are looking for is answer to the question "Will they sell?" Well, only the market will tell.

I use a glass breaking device. I love the glass breaking effect. But, I still know that it's a very tough sell to my audience. I think many (most, almost all?) performers wouldn't successfully build a presentation for the effect that works in their venues, and the effect would be a flop. If David Blaine does it on a special, you might sell a bunch. Without a presentation for amateurs to copy, if your price is proper *and* you don't offend your market (more below) you might sell 5-10 units in a year or two.

Do you expect to make a living as a manufacturer, or do you want to generate some pocket money to subsidize your hobby? Very few (VERY FEW) items sell in large quantities in the magic world.

Do you bring anything original to your product? Why should someone buy your model over someone else's? Are the "improvements" viewed through rose colored glasses? Sometimes a cheaper price is an "improvement," but if you are ruthlessly honest with yourself, will a wooden base be considered a worthy addition by your potential market, or is that something that is your opinion, and you are trying to convince others? Will that opinion fail in the real market? If it doesn't fold up quickly and efficiently, you've got an entire segment of your potential market that will not even consider your product based on their packing and traveling needs.

How *few* would you be willing to sell and still do it? That's a question you need to ask and *honestly* answer before you take on this endeavor. Is it two? Five? One hundred?

I mentioned offending your market. Take the following few scenarios:

Are you prepared to make five, and only sell one? It's not uncommon. If you tell people they will be made to order, you will lose the "impulse buyer," who has a few hundred bucks on his credit card and wants a new toy delivered on Tuesday. This guy instead buys a gizmo-gadget from Dealer X, and comes here to complain that you can't deliver the goods when people need 'em. More lost sales.

Are you prepared for Magician X to come on the Magic Café and claim you stole his design/method/whatever? It's not uncommon, either. Without an established reputation, even an accusation could kill every future sale. And what if you did duplicate their design/method? Did you do your homework? If you didn't, you will be condemned for it. If you did your homework, and the magic market decides it is too close to the original, you will be condemned as a thief. It's dangerous turf.

Are you prepared to get the phone call from the unpleasable customer that expects the table to do miracles that will make them loved, and when it doesn't, they call you to complain that it's a bad table because the hammer is too slow, and they want you to "fix it" for free? It's not uncommon, either.

If you think I'm discouraging you from marketing a project you like, I suppose I am. Selling into a niche market with such fickle buyers is ripe with risk. If you do it, you need to be good, lucky, innovative, ruthless, inxepensive, or some combination of the entire list. If you are all five, the odds of long term success are still against you.

Still, if the little voices keep telling you that this is the right thing to do, and those little voices aren't whispering the siren song of filthy lucre, then hey, don't let me get in your way, and best of luck!

To Mr. Savoie, I will have to answer the different points of your post separate as it will not let me submit everything at once. First off, I believe Blaine has done a breaking glass. I saw it here on the Café in secret sessions. No I don't expect to make a living off this. I am doing it for the working magicians that wish but can't afford. I'm one of them. As far as the tables having a wooden base, most will be stationary. I am considering however on building some with a folding base. If I have to revert back to the metal tripod then I will.

Posted: Sep 12, 2004 11:56pm
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I am only planning on building 10 at the moment. I don't want to go over budget and be stuck with any that wouldn't sell. I used to own my own business and I know the pitfalls to expect. I will only have one model that will be special order. It will be one that is remote controlled. The parts are very expensive for this type. If I lose a customer because of this, that is fine with me. I will be a small business person selling these, not an extensive manufacturer. Most people would be understanding of this.

Posted: Sep 13, 2004 12:06am
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I have done my homework on this. My table does break glass like the others, but I have not copied anything. I have not molded or made any parts that even remotely look the same. My whole apparatus is completely custom made and assembled by hand. As far as a customer complaining that the hammer is to slow, I have thought of that too. I will be offering a limited warranty for the table and a separate one for the apparatus. I will also be offering a replacement parts list. These could only be purchased if they can give me the serial # off the table and off of the replacement part sheet. I will not sell the whole complete apparatus as a whole as the whole thing breaking at once would not be very common. I have these security features so no one can just order everything and build their own while basically stealing my custom work.

Posted: Sep 13, 2004 12:16am
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Like I have said before, I'm not expecting long term success from this. I just want to offer a table that is inexpensive compared to the others. These tables don't just break glass, you can use them for tipping things or making things jump. I am however considering adding some other features to the table that the working magician would enjoy. That way the table wouldn't just be used for breaking glass. I've done my homework on this too, and no other glass breaking table has the added features that mine would. Therefore it would be an original and stand alone. I thank you for your detailed post and your complete honesty. There need to be others that have such extensive opinions.
Daniel Copperfield

Dan -

I suspect you didn't quite understand the reason for my post. I'm not really in your potential market. The questions are questions you need to answer for yourself, and to yourself.

You asked for suggestions, and I offered some. Caveat emptor.

--- Guy

Glad to see your offering a version with a timer. Collecters workshop had several table effects that worked on clock work timers but the new owers a replacing them with radio control. Every body who has had RF device fail raise you hand.

Jack Dean in Memphis once sold a sound activated unit,I know it was prone to misfire. A modular unit that would accept the Vertual Soundman is a thought. By all means make the manual overide a standard feature. The old masters did wonders,and there assistants were called thread pullers.

Guy, thanks for clarifying that. I have asked myself those questions quite a bit. Once again, I do thank you very much for your sound advice.

Posted: Sep 14, 2004 3:17am
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Constantine, PM or e-mail me on what you mean by a modular unit that would except a virtual soundman. I've never worked with one before. By making a manual override a standard feature, do you mean on all models? Especially the remote ones? I have to admit that I have seen some private built ones with a clock timer. I have seen 1 with an egg timer. I wonder how long it took for it to go off. LOL. And yes, mine will have a timer that you can set in between 5 seconds up to a minute. I've considered one up to 2 minutes but I think that might be to long. I'll have to see. Like I have said before these tables will have a nice added feature that others do not. I am also thinking of adding a space below the table that would be a flat surface for storing props. This would make them even better for a close-up table. Thanks for the insight.
Daniel Copperfield

I have to say that as I am having to perform so often right now that I don't have the time for this project. I do have one finished and I am currently finishing a second. So, for right now I will only have 2. I will be keeping one, and selling the other once I finish it. I will first try to sell it here, if it doesn't sell here, it will go to magic auction. If it doesn't sell there it will eventually go on ebay. Thanks to all for their advice and I am really sorry that I can't take this on right now full speed. I have 2 kids and a wife, and one of my sons and my wife have a birthday coming up, not to mention Christmas. My wife and I also have an anniversary on the 14th of this month. Once again I will be taking this back on later but for now I will only be producing one. It is a possibility that I might produce one every month, but I won't promise that. I am very very sorry. Thanks for everyone's support. I won't forget the help that was given to me.

When you are back in the mix of making these tables...how much for one of the remote controlled ones?

Tuffnavyrn, the remote controlled ones would be around $250 or so. This is about the same price for the ones that only have a timer. The reason that the remote ones would cost so much is that the parts for these types would cost me around $125. The ones that I would sell with a timer will be around $125 to $150. The ones with only a switch would be about $75 to $100. With the ones only with a switch you could also add your own thread to be able to pull the switch, that way your not directly at the table but you can't walk to far away. Thanks for the interest. Let me know.