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paulajayne Inner circle London England 1160 Posts 
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Quote:
On 2004-09-11 00:25, S2000magician wrote: LOL -- So true - Not many men look good naked - so look WOW when dressed. Paula
Paula Jay - Magic to Remember -
--------------------------------- I once wrote a book on elephants, I think paper would have been better. ---- |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts
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Quote: Well Paula, pls. be nice to the male sex..because what you just said (the original remarks from *S2000magician* where true and accurate too)could easily get turned around, like:
On 2004-09-12 15:17, paulajayne wrote: *Not many ladies...* aso. So bare with *us*  , but your other remark is correct ..*so look WOW when dressed*..good advice..
And you could have added: *Make the best out of it..the illusion will diminish far too soon.. *
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... )
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Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts
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Costume should fit character.
Dress for success. Perception is reality, not intent. And don't forget your shoes. A LOT can be told about a person simply by the shoes they wear. Look at peoples shoes. What do you see? Look at your own shoes and you'll see even more. Patrick Differ
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts
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Quote: I don't agree.. On 2004-09-12 16:35, MRD Friday wrote:
The wisdom brought forward was valid many years back.. but isn't valid nowadays anymore.. I'm NOT saying, a performer (when working nightclubs/restaurants aso.) shouldn't wear shoes that does match the standard (at least) of the place and the customers, what I'm saying is the statement of yours in general is useless nowadays.. A millionair can wear the most ugly shoes not even a tramp can compete with!!! Talking magic, the shoes of a character (Chaplin) or of Cellini have to fit his act and SO will tell you more about him/his character..in this case you are correct, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't what you ment.. Look at highpayed rockstars and what they wear on stage..look at their shoes..what does this tell you accordingly to your statement? NOTHING!
I've seen millionairs with plain ugly shoes and I've seen frauds with highly polished very expensive shoes..mind you, frauds have to look polished to con ppl.. It's the same with the large cars they drive.. The bigger the car, the bigger the chances are you are dealing with a fraud..
Pls. renew your view on judging ppl by their shoes.. YOU CAN'T..every option is possible.. Regards, Werner
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... )
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16342 Posts
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Well I just think magicians used to be, not just well dressed but the best dressed people in show business.
If they still are, then the Oscars must be looking like a tramps ball. No, not realy, it is not that bad. Magician Max Somerset celebrating after clinching a television lot on Sky One, sets a fine example here of what one can acheive by dressing imaculately. Max Somerset in nice clothes
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27223 Posts
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Don't forget the spats. It's just not the same without the spats.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24287 Posts
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Maybe, maybe not. On this side of the pond, shoes are very important to image. The ugly shoes high-paid rock stars wear are EXPENSIVE ugly shoes. Prestige labels make a big difference to clients.
It's too bad, in a way. The worst shoes I ever owned were made by a well-known Swiss company. They were supposedly very good shoes. They fell apart in a month. I can't wear bad shoes. They kill my feet. The orthotics I wear in a pair of shoes nowadays cost ten times more than the shoes, themselves. But I still have to wear shoes that go with the outfit I perform in. Quote: On 2004-09-12 16:47, Werner G. Seitz wrote:
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16342 Posts
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Next we have Bill sporting a beautiful hair style and graceful hand made Swiss shoes. Note the exquisite cut of the gown and the exceptional embroidery which adorns the hat. Thank you Bill.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Mauricio Jaramillo.jpg "View Profile") Elite user Colombia 412 Posts
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As was mentioned before, the way you dress should fit your character, that's all there is to it. Some people's performances do not fit the stereotypical magician look, and some choose not to look like a stereotype at all. Nothing wrong with that, and all who choose to dress elegantly on here should continue to do so since they feel comfortable with this style and it's been successful for them. At classy events, then I understand that we must look our best, but that's not always the venue we perform in. However, no need to look down on those who choose to dress in a certain way, if it works for them, let it be. There really is no such thing as looking "magical" in my opinion, those who believe they look this way are just deluding themselves. Let your skill, personality, and performance prove your worth. There shouldn't be any rules about this, for we shouldn't limit the boundaries of our genre. The same goes for artists, musicians and others in the business.
Just my 2 cents. |
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Chris Henderson Special user Indiana -- Anyone w/ no life would have 563 Posts
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A lot of younger magicians who dress down claim that the older generation is just copying magician's of ye olde when they wear a tuxedo. And yet what do these same younger magicians do? They copy certain current performers and wear ratty, dirty and ill-fitted street clothes to perform in.
While I agree that a tuxedo is not always the appropriate attire for certain situations, there is no doubt in my mind that the magician should almost always (there are always exceptions) be dressed one step up from his audience. The image a magician projects is just as important as every one of our effects, sleights, bits of misdirections, patter, gags, etc. Yes, performers are projecting an image when they wear torn jeans. But no matter what they think, that is not the image that should be projected for a performer. In the end they are only doing themselves, and all of magic, a disservice in my opinion. Want proof that well dressed is not just a good way to go, but the only way to go? Two words: James Bond. Case closed. Everyone wants to be like James Bond. Like magicians, he does the impossible. He always comes out on top. He always wins the card game. He always wins the lady. And he does it all dressed to the nines.
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief"
--Gerry Spence |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil’s Island 16342 Posts
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That makes a lot of sense MJ I of couse never look down on anyone, I hope Bill knows I was pulling his leg and the other guys who I call scruffy, I have no problem with their dress, but think their magic suffers because of it. I do not have the same opinion as you:
First I think guys can look magical, or to put it another way, speacial. I think the whole idea of magic, is to convey the idea that you are magic and speacial in some way. I think dressing is not a delusion but an illusion that works. Which is why film stars spend a fortunes on it. A rock star will dress like a rock star no matter where he performes, why, to covey the message to his audience that is rock star. There are no rules, and I have no complaint about the way they dress, in fact I think they would look silly in a tux. However a magician is not a rock star and should not try to act and look like one. Next you say dress should fit your character but I say, not your character, but the magician you are playing the part of. I hold to the idea that a magician is an actor playing the part of magician. I do not agree that a magician is a magician playing the part of himself, and dressing accordingly. I think a lot do not agree with that. I think their magic and personality is great. I just watch some magicians and think this guy is not even trying to convince me he is a magician, he just wants to show how cleaver he is with a deck of cards. In the old days magicians were great actors and seemed sincere in convincing you they were a magician, and left no stone unturned including dressing the part. It maybe that I have seen some bad magicians of late in that respect and and perhaps it is coincidental that were scruffy.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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MISTER E New user 46 Posts
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OK...
Magicians in the past wore tuxedos to convey a certain image. Back in the day, only members of the "elite" and "upper class" wore tuxedos... thus a magician in a tux meant that he was part of "the upper crust." Times have changed. Society has evolved. One no longer needs to wear a tux to be considered "elite." This is strikingly apparent when certain superstars can attend the Grammys in blue jeans and when Brad Pit can be the only guy in Buckingham Palace not wearing a tie and still rub elbows with Prince Charles and the Royal Family. The classiest gathering by far is the Oscars. Society at large would still consider some of those celebrities to be classy even without all the gowns and tuxedos. Why? Because of they way they carry themselves. (...money has a lot to do with it, too.) I'm all for class. I am of the mentality that in certain situations, it is better to be over-dressed than under-dressed. But it IS entirely possible for one to convey "class" without attempting to appear classy merely through attire. In blue jeans and a t-shirt, I still managed to sound classy to a blind man, and look classy to a hearing-impaired lady; all the while in both instances remaining completely magical. The point is, you can be magical as long as you're PRESENTABLE. The trick is to find what "look" works best for you and your performance. Copperfield makes a ridiculous amount of money because among other things, he knows how to change with the times. It's called evolution; don't be afraid of it. Embrace it. Utilize it. If you feel like YOU need to convey class with a suit and tie, then by all means, stick to the layers... just make sure that your performance is amazing. The bottom line is that a magician need not wear a tux to be amazing, magical, or even classy. A magician only needs to present him/herself in attire that remains congruent with his/her performing character. ...and if you're trying to look like a magician 24/7, please be sure to never invite me to go bowling with you. Just playing. -E |
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Verno Inferno Regular user Chicago 132 Posts
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Wear whatever you want. I don't care. However, I will suggest that a young performer should look like he has some style. Open GQ or another men's style magazine. Everything else being equal, the customer will chose the one with better style. A baseball cap and grungy clothes that were in-style when Nirvana still had a lead singer will pale in comparison to the clothes worn by someone who took the effort and shelled out the coin for age-appropriate clothes that are fresh and in-style. Also, I'm willing to wager that everything being equal, a guy in an out-dated tux that doesn't quite fit like it once did should lose work to someone dressed less fancy, but with more style.
These suggestions are for young performers. I don't think a tux is age-appropriate for most young performers in most of the settings in which they work. However, there are PLENTY of in-style, sharp sport coats and shirts that you can wear with jeans and still look like the best dressed person in the room. Then you will be memorable. It's a mix (age-appropriate, venue appropriate, routine appropriate...), but in the end, you either have style or you don't. And for Christ's sake, get a haircut you hippies.
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Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts
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Sometimes I confuse zillionaires and rock stars with conjurers. Sometimes I can't tell them apart...because of my bifocals? No, because of their shoes.
I don't mean to generalize all shoes are reflective of a person. Exceptions? Of course...those mentioned amongst others. Still, I believe shoes will often reflect character. Shoes "out of character" arouse suspicion. Don't forget the shoes...no not the shoes... IMO, I think spats are cool, especially when I sense a play on words. With that...good spats are rare. Cheap spats are a fine way to get caught up to the instep in doo-doo. And entirely out of character... no bueno ... 2 pesos mas. Patrick
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11047 Posts
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If you don't look like you are worth your fee you are starting with one strike against you. Wear anything you want, but ALWAYS strive to stand out in the crowd. If you take your magic seriously you must LOOK LIKE A PROFESSIONAL. If you are performing with a backward baseball hat, shorts, and a tee shirt don't be surprised if no one is impressed with your stuff. Did you become magicians to impress the chicks, or the street people?
See Ya Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20527 Posts
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I don't recall ever being told, "We can't use you. You are over dressed."
As a booking agent, I have been told several times, "Don't every send me a bum dressed like that again. I would fire a dishwasher dressed like that. My customers deserve better." They weren't joking! Buying dirty used cars with flat tires just seldom appeals to the people shelling out the money. Clients are usually trying to favorably impress someone else. Make it easy, if you want the job. It's an act that has to be convincing. It's not limited to magic tricks. Set the stage to be on it! Bob Magic By Sander |
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Daniel Faith Inner circle Neenah, Wisconsin 1526 Posts
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Werner, your comparing apples to oranges. Rock stars are not the example to go by unless your a rock star. We should be the best dress at any function. Dressed for success.
Daniel Faith
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20527 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-02-11 20:37, Daniel Faith wrote: Daniel makes the point that I often had problems getting across to acts when I owned a personal management and booking agency. That is, if you plan for people to see you as a duck, you had better look, act and sound like a duck. Country clubs rarely admit rock stars. Their agents and managers, Yes. But the managers and agents had better look like business people. They know what they seek. Frequently when talent buyers buy talent, they are buying "borrowed image" and that must benefit the talent buyer. Dress is often a measure used to put a value on that "borrowed image". The absolute bottom line is "Don't embarrass the talent buyer". (You usually won't get the opportunity but once in that market. You know the saying: "Disappoint me once; shame on you. Disappoint me twice; shame on me!") In the professional entertainment business, as agents, we had a description for those "not ready for prime time" acts that never caught on to that rule of show business. They were seen as available but not professional. We describe these acts as "having a magnificent future behind them." We actually tried to avoid them. Entertainment is a customer-oriented business. If it fails there it becomes a vanity shop in which the audience is optional or unnecessary. That is entirely another business. It is not like the entertainment industry that employs professional entertainment, but one, which deals in the personal fantasy that one is an entertainer. Self-importance plays better in vanity shops than in the professional entertainment industry. Sophisticated audiences tend to see blind arrogance as just arrogance. Be very careful who you copy. Some have a magnificent future behind them. Bob Magic By Sander |
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irishguy Special user Ohio 629 Posts
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If you want to dress nice, go for it. If not, that is your choice too.
I don't know that I agree with the argument that a magician should dress better than the audience. Copperfield doesn't...he's doing OK. Henning didn't. Blaine doesn't. There are enough people who think magicians are arrogant and basically saying "look what I can do and you can't"...I don't see how dressing superior to others is going to lessen that. If anything, it will just fuel it. |
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KerryJK Special user Northampton UK 621 Posts
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Actually I think the "class" of dress is a bit of a red herring, really the way you need to look is "interesting". What this actually means in real terms varies according to the performer and the setting and requires more thought than just writing a tailor a blank cheque.
Wearing a tux for a restaurant gig is as likely to get people asking you for another Perrier as it is them buying you as a magnificient sorceror. Derren Brown dresses in fantastic classy suits that suit his character, if David Blaine wore those suits it just wouldn't suit his surroundings and style (actually, Blaine's "mysterious stranger" street style is an exception, because he goes out of his way to avoid looking like a performer in order to make the whole thing weirder, something that his imitators don't always get). Doug Henning's stage outfits wouldn't grant him access to a five star restaurant, but put him in the midst of his colourful, psychedelic stage show and it works. David Copperfield may dress as if he's come from an audition for a coffee comercial, but again, it suits him and it's memorable. |
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Posted: Sep 12, 2004 02:17 pm 
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