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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Percentage of turnover on Printed Advertising (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Emazdad
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Brilliant Kyle, if it works for you keep it up.

My thinking is, if they're rubbish don't reccomend them, if they're good don't reccomend them because next year the booker and anyone at the party may phone them and not me. As we all know if a booker sees 2 good performers, the last one they see is the one they are most likely to book.

Even if me and Billy don't reccomend them a booker who has tried both of us will then go to one of the others in the book, their performance will re-inforce the resolve of the booker to try and book us earlier next time round. It's happened before and it will again. I've had people come up to me at parties and say, "we tried to get you, and Billy Wiz and you couln't do us, we ended up with $$$$$$ he was cheaper, but wasn't as good as you two.

The best thing Billy and I have, is not only our high quality shows and professional attitude, but also our friendship which stops us being competitors. We both know that if my diary fills up before his, his diary will then fill up with the people I point his way, and vice versa. (some weeks my phone is busyier than his etc). In effect each of our yellow pages advertising, is working for the other as well.

We also get to work on ideas and critique the others work and ideas to maintain our standards. If one of us comes up with an idea, the other helps develope it, but will not use it, unless it is something that we can take our own ways and both use in a totally different way.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
Cheshire Cat
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I think I can safely say that we were listening to: "I'll have to have a word with my husband" lines before any of you! and yes, I totally agree with what Phillip and Clive, Candini and others have said.

As mentioned Kyle, we personally don't need to apply the type of marketing you kindly explain in such great detail, but I am sure it will be of help to others, especially in the States I have to say, where this "double glazing salesman" type of sell is probably more common. Now please don't take offence at what I say here Kyle by me saying it's a "double glazing" routine, - because it's become quite obvious to all of us that there are widely varying techniques of business practice across the Atlantic and also in NZ and Australia, although the southern hemisphere members tend I find to work closer to British practice than USA practice.

I think the 'planting' of the price (at what stage) in advertising or conversation has all been done before here in 2002. Of course we personally tell them the cost first, and have it on our website, - but I realise we are in a minority here, but it works for us (maybe it's the way we do it). I would not wish to debate on this subject any further though.

I have to say that if Clive and Billy truly have this working relationship then they are both very lucky indeed, and if Billy does move to Spain it will be a shame for both (although I realise the necessity of Billy moving). Maybe Billy will keep his UK website and redirect all business enquiries to Clive (?) Our ventures into "relationships" with other local entertainers have usually curtailed after a very short while when we've realised the unscrupulous nature and poor standards of some!

Tony.
Rupert Bair
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I agree to that they are very lucky. I think it is fantastic I think over 70% of the pros in Merseyside are absolute rubbish. I only reccomend two people. I hope in the future I can befriend another entertainer and have the same working relationship as you two, I think it must benefit the acts sooo much. At the moment I am happy to just use word of mouth as I don't need to really on performing for income. I think It would be wise for me to start advertsing properly in my last year of college so I know when I leave I will be performing enough to make sufficent money. Possibly the yellow poges isn't the way to go as their are about 5 pages of entertainers most of them AAAAAA1 entertainment ect which I think is rather silly to get to the front. I like Andy's (I think) Idea of ad's in parent magazine, a bang on target audience.
Matt
magic4u02
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Clive:

You and Billy are very very lucky to have what you have set up. To be able to have that friendhsip and to be able to work it the way you do is just awesome. The sad reality is that a lot of the rest of us in the world do not have that luxury and may never have it because of location, economy and competitiuon in our areas.

When this happens we must learn to strive to get business the best way we can while still maintaining our reputation as good people and qaulity service.

Most of this means you must understand the business side of magic and that often means learning how to market yourself properly. Many do not get these two points. They either have:

1) A really bad show and are not willing to fix it.

or

2)They have a good show but they sit around waiting for the phone to ring and it never does.

These seem to be the reality for many magicians out there and it is the sad truth. You first MUST be able to evaluate your show and have others you trust help you with it. You have to have a good show cause all the marketing in the world will not keep you working if your show is just poor. Word of mouth will work against you faster then you can blink an eye.

Another tip I do is 1) never ever send out someone to represent me and my name unless I know for sure they are a great act and a good performer and 2) when they are at the gig they must NOT hand out there stuff. They must habd out my agency business cards and hand outs. That is just part of doing business with me and it works ok as long as everyone in my network understands and agrees to it.

Tony:
No offense taken at all. That is what I love about this place. We can all have opinions even if we may disagree at them. That is what makes this work and how we all can learn from each other. I welcome your response and others gladly. =)

The sad reality here in the states is that you MUST market yourself. Well this is not entirely true. Let me elaborate a bit.

If your a hobbiest and you do your magic for enjoyment and do not have to do gigs or a lot of them, then you may be fine not marketing or doing business at all. Your comfortable with that.

On the other hand, if your goal is to make and earn money from your magic and to treat it as a side business or a full time business, then you simply must not only uinderstand business side of magic but you really must learn marketing skills. It is as easy as that.

In the states, a great show gets you no where unless people know you have this great show and you can prove to them that you can meet and solve their needs. This is marketing in a nutshell and in the states, the magicians who understand this are the ones who are working as much as they want to work.

Now as Clive and others have said, you can get yourself over the years to a point ehere your working as much as you want to and your comfortable at that level. At this point, you can ease off the marketing. You do not have to do as much of it cause your already there.

However you still must keep those clients happy and get repeat gigs or referrals. Your still marketing, but just not as much cause you do not have to.

It is a shame that many magicians do not have the same relationship of friendhsip as Clive and Billy and others have here. That is a shame but a fact of life. You only hope to meet some entertainers who not only understand you but you trust and can work together.

Matt:
You have a hgreat idea of marketing and learning to market before you get out of college. That will serve you well indeed. Just remember that ads are not the only way to go. Certainly place an ad that works in a parent magazine, but do more then that as well. Do active style marketing that year before you go out and I guarentee you will have your phone ringing with people wanting you.

Kyle
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Billy Whizz
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Quote:
On 2004-09-25 22:26, magic4u02 wrote:
in my area, a problem exists of way too many entertainers in one location. I have a TON of guys doing magic here and there is so many for people to choose from. This means for me that marketing is a MUST. Kyle


Hi Kyle, we also have lots in our Yellow Pages , I've just counted 24 magicians, that doesn't include face painters, bouncy castles, discos etc. The only main ingredient required to be sucessfull, is a good, polished show, and a single ad so people who have seen you can find your number.

Hi Ace, Emazdad and I have already discussed what will happen when I go to Spain. We're going to (He's paying though) put a small ad in YP thanking all my previous clients for inviting me to their paries, telling them that I have now moved to Spain, but I highly recomend calling Emazdad for a fun filled Magic Show on Tel:.......

Although he doesn't need the extra work, it will give him the opportunity to be even more choosy over which shows he takes.
magic4u02
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Hey Billy:

That is a pretty good list in the yellow pages. Here in Philadelphia, magicians alone takes up over a page and more. There are tons of them here.

Yes, the number one ingredient to be successful doing magic and making money is you MUST have a good and quality show. That is a must and if you do not have this, then all the ads in the world will do nothing for you. You will eventually fade out in the long run.

I just disagree with the second part. But it is cool that we can disagree at the Café. That is what I love about it. Let me explain.

If you have a good shbow, then word of mouth can work great for you and often does. An ad placed in a key publication can also work great also. Just that ads are passive forms of marketing. You have to wait and HOPE the person calls you. Sometimes they do and that is great.

BUT, I wouold much rather take charge of my marketing. This may just be me, but I want to take control and not wait for the clients to contact me. I eagerly go out there and GET the clients to know who I am and what I am all about.

It takes work, but is not hard to do once your set up and it becomes habit for you. You just get in the habit of thinking actively rather then waiting for the calls.

Now if your like Billy or Clive and you have reached a plateu where your comfortable with the amount your doing, then you certainly do not need to actively market at this point. You just simply need to maintain good relationships with your clients and the rest works itself out.

It is just that many who are starting out or who are in a highly competitive market, do not do well because they sit on their butt and do not do the work to 1) imorve their show and 2) go out there and activeky market by learning the business side of magic.

Just my 2 cents.

Kyle =)
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Cheshire Cat
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Then there are those entertainers who trade from the "right" location. In other words they have a good address themselves. They draw lots of Customers from similar locations because they feel "comfortable" booking a service from someone living at this address in this location. Do the rich Jews living in New York book an entertainer trading from the Bronx? Do the rich North Cheshire, England, people book an entertainer trading from a (perceived) shabby social housing estate in Manchester? Do the wealthy Auckland, New Zealand families book an entertainer from some (perceived) downtrodden Polynesian area?

Maybe some people shop in Yellow Pages and look for an entertainer from a 'good' area. Thus the area you live in yourself can actually market your business.

Ok, this sounds obnoxious doesn't it? But I honestly believe.Well I know! - that where you trade from can affect business.
Tony.
magic4u02
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Tony:

There is a point to be made there and as crazy as it sounds, some suspects actually think exactly the way you just stated. It is sad to think they do this and don't give everyone a fair shake, but that is just the way life is sometimes.

What I do is the best I can do to get the suspects and turn them into prospects. When I do that it is easier for me to change them into a paying client.

I do not sit around the phone waiting for it to call. It just does nothing for me. I would much rather be active in my marketing and constantly do stuff that betters my show and that markets me to people in the best manner possible.

Kyle
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Emazdad
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Hi Kyle, I for one don't wait by the phone in the hope that it will ring, I know it will, and if they leave a message I'll phone them back when I get back from the golf course.

Somedays it goes mad and I'll take loads of bookings, others it goes mad and I take none because I can't fit them in, sometimes it goes 2-3 days where it doesn't ring at all. No worry's on my part, After 23 years in the navy where at sea we used to put in a 90 hour week, I love all the rest and relaxation time I get now.

If you want a sure fire, failure free way of getting your phone to ring all you need to do, is start decorating. I can garuntee without fail just as you get to the top of the step ladder and that piece of wallpaper makes first contact with the wall the phone will ring.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
magicgeorge
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If you don't need to decorate you can also try cooking your lunch or trying to leave the house in a hurry.

I find the yellow pages ad is important because past customers use it to find your number again.
magic4u02
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That may be the case in Belfast, but if I am always having to have the past clients look in the ywllow pages for my number, then I simply am at fault for not doing a good enough job of marketing myself when at the party.

Every time I leave I make sure the client has my magnet, business cards and a thank you letter personalized for them. All of this gives them ample information to know I appreciate their business and more importantly, it keeps my name and contact information in front of them for when they need it.

Kyle
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magicgeorge
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Kyle,
That's a good point. I had exactly the same conversation with a leading balloon artist from the States last year. He reckoned my marketing was at fault. Well, maybe it is, to some degree. I like the fridge magnet idea but have never got around to it, so maybe people wouldn't lose cards as much if I got in gear. The thing is though, yellow pages over here is an institution, whereas I understand, you have several yellow pages in the states. This creates a relaxed attitued here, where people don't treasure your card as much since they think "oh, I'll just look him up in the YP".
Also consider the people, your client recommend you to, if so-and-so has had you for their party and says to their friend " oh, we had Magic George for our child's party he was fantasticish (ish added for own ego's sake)"
Then they are not likely to have a card to pass on at that moment so they'll say " he's in the YP".

I know this to be a fact because a couple of years ago I fell out with the YP because they where ****s over a particular issue so withdrew my ad for a year ( cut off nose, spited face) next year I had a lot of customers saying "we wanted you last year but had lost your card and couldn't find you in the YP".
I think it must be a Brit thing, since there's only one YP and since it's the first place 99% of people look when looking for a business, getting your name out there is far more important than getting you advertising bumf out there.
George
Emazdad
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On my car, it has my name and phone numbeer, it also has stickers in the windows saying they can find me in the yellow pages.

Every kid goes home with my details, this doesn't mean the parents will keep them handy, as george says they know where to find me if they want to.

I did look at the fridge magnet idea once, but as you'd be giving up to 30 away at every party it was a tad expensive.

Billy has a winner, he sends out invitations, they are professionally printed and he sends a bunch out with the contract. He had a call the other week from a lady who told him she had 4 of his invitations up on her fridge.

I'll be doing it after he's gone to spain, but I can't at the moment because it's Billy's idea and is one of the things we each do or send out that's different from what the other sends out.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
Rupert Bair
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I like the idea Emazdad but sometimes by the time they have booked you the invites already went out.
Matt
Emazdad
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Confused ny your post Matt, what do you mean?

With the invites Billy's details are kept on the fridge for longer than your average punter keeps a business card. It may be only a couple of weeks and then on party day it's taken down, but as this women told billy, she had 4 invites from 4 different people who have booked him. If she never seen him before this told the lady he must be good and worth booking.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
magic4u02
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With the magnets, I buy in bulk so it keeps costs down and they are just business card magnets so they are evenb chaper to do. I also only give them out the the client booking the event and not to every kid as they just get lost and costs me too much. I also send them out when I am doing lead generation. They work great and people use them and your info. gets seen every day.

Kyle
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