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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Seventh Item force (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Midnight333
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There is a certain manuscript which calls for the force of a certain object. Yet the method, based on what I think is called the "seventh object", is really transparent. Everyone I've use this force saw through it. Can anyone help me to develop a force of an item without using cards?
salsa_dancer
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Equivoque.
drwilson
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Read Phil Goldstein's "Verbal Control."

Yours,

Paul
Anabelle
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Verbal control is very good!

Anabelle
Midnight333
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Where do I get this "verbal control"?

I need this information, but I can't find it on the search engines. ANY help would greatly be appreciated.
scott b.
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If I'm correct "Verbal Control" is out of print like the Color Series and VERY hard to find. (It's currently for sale on eBay with the color series set.)
Thanks! Scott B.

"I don't know the key to success . . . but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." - Bill Cosby
Mark Rough
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Scott, Midnight333, et al

Actually "Verbal Control" was reprinted last year, and there should be copies around. Try Denny and Lee's, H&R, or any of the many good book dealers out there. It'll be among the best five or so dollars you can spend.

Mark
What would Wavy do?
Caleb Strange
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PATEO might suit.
-- QCiC --
Midnight333
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What is PATEO? And the trick I've got is modeled after an effect called the "Green Bean Trick", also the "seventh object". Does any one know what I'm talking about? I'm trying to buy the "Verbal Control" MS now. I never thought that putting together a show like this would be so hard.
Caleb Strange
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The PATEO force is a simple and fairly clean method of forcing one object out of several - it's generally done with five objects, but seven would work, as well.

Ken DeCourcy wrote a book about this particular force called '33 tricks with the PATEO force'.

Mention of the PATEO force brings to mind this thought: that if they are to be convincing and effective, then one's forces must arise logically, cleanly and naturally from the presentation.

Regards,

Caleb Strange.
-- QCiC --
Midnight333
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Where can I find this book?
Caleb Strange
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Magic Books by Post stock it, I believe:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/magicbooks/

Like I said, though, the PATEO force can look as obvious as any other, if it doesn't arise logically from out of the presentation. (I've used the PATEO force when I've been teaching someone to use the pendulum. I demonstrate, they try to copy, I demonstrate again, and so on. The alternating elimination procedure makes sense to people, I've found, when performed in this context. Other times, the force can stand out a mile.)

What's the context of your force?

Regards,

Caleb Strange.
-- QCiC --
Seance
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One thing that I've found in performing 'The Seventh Object' is to make sure that the spectator only has time to glance and choose an object from the list. I give the list to the spectator, tell the spectator to quickly focus on ONE object (let the spirit guide you, etc.) and then immediately get the list back, never to show it again. I also make sure that the objects are distinctly different, yet bizarre enough to not be encountered in normal everyday traffic.

This makes it work wonderfully for me. You must control the spectator(s), not have them control you.
Midnight333
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Thank you, Seance. I think that the instruction in the booklet was unclear. Your idea seems to work much better.

Caleb,

The context is to have an item chosen from seven odd artifacts. The "freely" chosen item is then placed in a box with a pencil and a signed note card. The magic happens and I reveal the object as well as the note card which now has the name of the object written in ghostly letters. Do you think Equivoque can accomplish this force?
Seance
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Just to be clear, 'The Seventh Object' can be found in Chelman's book, "Capricornian Tales".
Caleb Strange
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Midnight333,

It's not my place to rewrite M. Chelman's stuff Smile. In answer to your question, though, equivoque can accomplish just about anything, I believe, so long as your scripting is consistent, makes sense, and you know it better than you know your own name.

Sorry to waffle. Good luck with this.

Regards,

Caleb Strange.
-- QCiC --
Midnight333
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As far a Chelman in concerend, Docc Hilford provided the method to me in one of His manuscripts. I know the principal, so I'm sorry if you thought I was asking for it. Sometimes it's hard to be clear on these posts. Anyway thanks for your sugestions.
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