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Lee Darrow
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If you are going to do a stage hypnosis show, first get the professional classroom training to be able to handle the strange things that will happen during such shows. Whether you want them to or not, sooner or later, a volunteer is going to react in a manner completely unexpected (and sometimes unpleasant as well) and you had better know how to minimize the possibility of that happening and what to do about it when it does.

Organizations like the National Guild of Hypnotists (www.ngh.net) offer professional level training all over the world now. Omni Hypnosis Center in Florida is also a good place to start and, frankly, Wendi Freisen (the one Penn & Teller bushwhacked) is also superb.

As a side note, Penn & Teller IGNORED the four medical doctors that testified to the value of hypnosis and their saying that Wendi is saying that people with cancer should go to her because she has a cure is pure <insert the title of their show here>! They took a portion of her CD "Heal the Body" which is meant to help people with the psychological aspects of healing from surgery and the like, quoted it completely out of context and outright lied about her claims. They also did not show the oral surgery that Wendi helped with (no anesthetic to the patient), nor the work on painless childbirth that she does. In other words - they SPUN the show to THEIR biased view and did NOT give her a fair airing at all!

Bottom line with that show - if Penn doesn't believe in it, it WILL get trashed on the air.

The opinions expressed are entirely my own and do not reflect those of The Magic Café, it's management or sponsors.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
SpAgHeTtI
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In Italy I haven' t found stage hympnosis training....

However I'd like also to know why stage hypnosis works good only if there are many spectators but in one-to-one it isn't good....
nalu_magic
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Many stage hypnotists oftentimes adopt that very falsehoods that hypnotism is a numbers game when it really isn't.

For example, they believe that they MUST have a certain number of people in attendance to assure that at least a few of the subjects will go into trance state.

Hypnotizing people is NOT a numbers game. With the proper training, the right tools, resources, and knowledge, a stage hypnotist will have the skills to get all volunteers into trance state.

Now I understand that because of time constraints that a hypnotist must dismiss those participants who aren't going under quickly. Perhaps in a different setting where more rapport and trust can be developed those volunteers will be more receptive.

All I'm saying is that don't hypnotize yourself to believe that you have to have a certain number of people in order to get a percentage of those under. Hypnotism is not a numbers game. It is based on knowledge and skill of the hypnotist.
Jim Callahan
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If you are interested in researching some good proof of hypnotic states take a look at the new discover magazine. Of course, one would have to be willing to accept scientific evidence. And that could possibly put you at odds with some in the magic field.

As pointed out by Mr. Darrow.
I gave them what I promised. But it was not what they expected!
SpAgHeTtI
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I'll try by myself.

However, I have read that some people,like Martin Taylor for example, do hypnotism without hypnosis. Other also think that is only suggestion and protagonist, other that is a real state of mind, and other that it is all of this together.

Also if I have never done it I think that is all of that thing together, and that the number of people present is useful not only in order to find better subject but also to make the subject in a psychological position that 'force' him better to follow the suggestion to not feel himself wrong and to be protagonist.

But I have not read nothing, so I could be wrong. I'll study it! Smile

OK, sorry for the bad English! -_-'
francisco
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What I find strange is, wherever Shrink posts, Hypnotic Winter seems to post also.... is Hypnotic Winter under Shrinks amazing powers of 'a click of the finger, and... he's under?!'

Also, whoever drew Hypnotic Winter's avatar, if indeed it is a drawing [i'm hoping you don't actually look like that Mr. Winter] should be shot!

anyway.. no offence..

:D Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile

-Francisco
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'

[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism]
SpAgHeTtI
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Hypnotic Winter and Shrink are both hypnotist of long experience.....and it a good thing for me that they answer togheter..... Smile

Francisco you could also post something inherent the tread if you want.....It'll be appreciable! Smile
mota
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A long time ago a friend named Tony Andruzzi gave me his favorite hypnotism book. I still have it, complete with handwritten notes about his and some others shows. It's old, worn, and a grand total of 37 numbered pages, plus a few for ads.

The book is Practical Hypnotism by Ed Wolff. It was published by D Robbins of New York in their E-Z magic series. I don't find a date anywhere on it, but the series included Harry Lorrayne's card classic "My Favorite Card Tricks". Maybe that can help date it.

I make no claims for it, many will certainly suggest it is too little info to do it "safely". Just take it for whatever you will.

I have no idea where it can be found and please don't request "copies"...it won't happen.
procyonrising
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Hi Mota,

Practical Hypnotism was my first book. I hypnotized at least a dozen people with methods from that book before moving on to others.

Consider yourself lucky.

Best,
James.
Hypnotic Winter
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Francisco

I usually post where I think I might know somthing of use, I try to help in the field I know about, suggestion and hypnosis, in mentalism it's self I'm pretty much the same as every one elese.

My averter is me wearing my ,phantom of the opera half mask from the stage production, I'm a Big Fan of that show, and it is a portrait Picture. Any way, I like it and that's all that counts.

H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
Mesaboogie
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What is the bordline between Waking Hypnosis and Full Induction Hypnosis with regards to the law? I use Waking Hypnosis to some degree in many effects, does the law apply here? Surely not. For example, if I stick someones hand to mine and they can't move it, without using an induction, and in a waking state, is this acceptable without consent. I certainly don't ask for someones consent when I make them feel a coin bending in their hand, however, this IS a form of suggestion which is a form of waking hypnosis, so....?

What are your views on this?
TheMindReader.co.uk

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Hypnotic Winter
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In what you call waking hypnosis the part of your mind that censors, the part I call the conscious mind is still active and you heve snuck your suggestions in under this rader, this part of your mind is the censor that stops you taking every thing at face value and stops you buying every thign you are told you should get.
In full hypnosis the subject no longer has any real censor active any more, it is effectively in appearance closed down, so if you tell some one they are the queen they will do their best impersonation and will effectively believe they are the queen, there is no censor in their mind to tell them they are not. The label" hypnosis" can be a bit of a fuzzy subject.
This is a huge area to go into. And could end up starting a lot of debate.

H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
procyonrising
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Okay, this is going to be my experience from working with psychologists and lawyers, and psychologists who are also lawyers.

Please be aware that I'm not a lawyer myself...

If a tortious claim is brought against you, it would be for negligence only. Most lawyers know that you can't win cases on the basis of hypnosis, only negligent actions. So, legally, you don't really have to worry about whether they're in trance or not. You only have to worry about whether you did something that a "reasonable" person would have taken "reasonable" care to avoid.

However, in regards to your question... Say someone brought a claim against you and part of that claim was that the person you worked with was hypnotized. The psychologist testifying against you could probably make this work - regardless of what you actually did. Forensic psychology works that way (that's why the insanity defense lacks credibility in the US). However, the psychologist working for your side would probably include the following information in your arguments:

1. Hypnosis requires some type of dissociation (Spiegel, Trance and Treatment)
2. Hypnosis requires an induction (APA Division 30's New Definition and Description of Hypnosis)
3. Hypnosis usually requires deepening (another argument made by many, but this is open, as are further arguments, so I would personally stay away from further arguments).

Up to this point, you're screwed. Any reasonable psychologist can say that the person you were working with was under emotional strain - which can cause dissociation (yes, outside of trance, but since it is an element of trance, you're screwed anyway). You may not have used an actual induction, but it can be claimed that the person you were working with was put in some kind of sensitive state because of the work you were performing (it is mind-reading, you know). Are you starting to get how the whole legal defining thing works?

(For the record, Hypnosis has and is defined by the psychological community. The definition is open, correct, and empirical - nothing more. All they do is describe what happens and what doesn't happen - that's it.)

So, legally, it's really hard to say because so much depends on the quality of your psychologist and legal precedence in your state or location.

For instance, George Bien, a friend and hypnotherapist, testified in court once as an expert in hypnosis (he is). His entire argument was to counter the other psychologist's argument (mostly using research by Hilgard, on unique dissociative experiences and "the hidden observer," topics that are now highly debated and thought to be incorrect). Though George won the argument, he didn't win on logic or psychological science, he won on charisma (he's very charismatic; very persuasive in front of a jury).

So, the short answer to your question is that hypnosis MAY be defined by an experience of dissociation after an induction procedure, perhaps followed by some deepening procedure. But it's pretty malleable. As long as you're not reasonably negligible in your performance, the law (probably) doesn't care about you using suggestion in your performance.

It's vague, I know. But I hope it helps.

Best,
James.

Guys,

If I may, I'd also like to relate another story, which doesn't really deal with hypnosis, but really defines the scope of forensic psychology (it's because of this that this is relevant here).

Bonnie Garland. This was some sweet girl finishing her degree at Yale. Total girl next door; came from a great family, good family values, great life.

She had a boyfriend she met at Yale. He was latino, underprivileged, and poor. But talented. They dated for a few years, even after he graduated from Yale and went on to pursue a Ph.D.

Ostensibly, good people; people you want in your neighborhood.

One night, boyfriend goes crazy. Puts a hammer into Bonnie's head - repeatedly. He knows exactly what he's doing. He knows to clean the hammer off and everything. He's not insane. He ends up thinking about the event all night, eventually turning up in front of Yale's church.

Long story short: boyfriend hires John Train, a psychologist who knows how to work a jury. John says the boy was momentarily crazy (using a lot of psychobabble) and couldn't help the event. Jury believes him (part of it was that Bonnie's family and lawyer both thought it was an open and shut case - boyfriend admitted to the murder; they got lazy). Boyfriend gets off the murder charge, gets 8 years in a minimum security "hospital."

That's the power of psychological testimony. (If you want more info on this case, read "The Killing of Bonnie Garland," a really great read.) It's not about legal definitions, it's about the quality of your witnesses and arguments.
mota
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What "is" hypnosis? It is really quite simple...it is a specific mental state with a specific "formula".

Total Absorption + Narrow Focus = Trance.

When you are completely absorbed with a very narrow reality, that narrow reality (focus) becomes your entire reality.

Do with this information what you will.
Mr Grey
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One of the greatest stage hypnotists of the twentieth century told me that hypnosis was a load of baloney and didn't even exist.

He is now retired from the stage and is considered one of the leading hypnotherapists in the world.

Yep. There's one born every minute. A man after my own heart.
Hypnotic Winter
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Mr Grey, my question has always been, what would you like to call it then? I have no idea what happens should be labeled as, a door is not a door it's a big rectangular block of wood, the door doesn't really exist Smile

H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
aaguilar007
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Dear Friends,
I read all your posts with utmost interest. I am very eager to learn Hypnotism, and erroniously thought that it could be learned from books, tapes or 3 days courses. After reading this tread, I found that, though it can be accoplished, it would be very irresponsible. I live in Mexico, and I just found an Institute that teaches Eriksonian Hypnotism. I will enrole and will share my experiences in the future.

Best,

Alfredo
Mexico

Ps:Hypnotic Winter: The Phantom of the Opera Rocks! What do you think of the new movie? I saw the show with Michael Crawford on Broadway (a long time ago).
“If you can make another person’s reality into something wonderful, you can do real magic”.

Richard Osterlind
Making Real Magic
J ack Galloway
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As for the contention that it is all a con or not real I would suggest an article in Discover magazine a couple of months back.

Yep it has been proven to be a very real thing.


Cheers

Jack
kbiehler
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Has anyone used 'Dr. Q's Hypnotic Act' from "The Mental Mysteries and Other Writtings of Willam Larsen,Sr". It might not be real hypnonis but it sounds like it would play well.
mdspark
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Quote:
On 2005-01-23 18:36, kbiehler wrote:
Has anyone used 'Dr. Q's Hypnotic Act' from "The Mental Mysteries and Other Writtings of Willam Larsen,Sr". It might not be real hypnonis but it sounds like it would play well.


I have used it several times, kbiehler... Feel free to ask anything you would like to know.

Mark
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