|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] | ||||||||||
Gazzo Regular user 145 Posts |
Simon that's the biggest load of (it would not let me say what I would have liked)
|
|||||||||
mslj New user Bradford, England 95 Posts |
And what would you know old man. I've seen your limited routine and to be frank I think you are a loss to the plumbing world.
|
|||||||||
Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
OK my third video. This is a result of careful thought on what sequences were best and clipping bits out to make an entertaining routine. Spectator is asked to pick cups and stuff like that through the routine (I didn't do that in the vid because it is too hard to do without audio).
This routine is also a result of all the really helpful people on the site. Thanks for all your help it has made me think more about all my tricks and routines. The new routine is at this link: http://homepage.eircom.net/~pillaypdsl/Cups_Balls/ New_Cups_and_Balls_Routine.wmv |
|||||||||
Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts |
Okay, the final loads have to be loaded faster, and everything has to be a little more fluid. It should not look like phases, but like one big thing.
Again, I would like to hear patter. Get a microphon. Maybe one of you neighbors has one. But it is much better than the two videos before that! Thank for trusting us and letting us see you performance... ...and you cat. mmG Roland |
|||||||||
BerkleyJL Veteran user Chicago, IL 397 Posts |
I would love to hear your patter as you perform this, as well.
Your moves are good, but you may want to look into some convincers after your vanishes. The wand is a good one, but you use the same pass many times. Look into the wand vanishes and explore some ways to show the "dirty" hand empty. Some people pass the wand from hand to hand to show both hands empty...it's tricky but doable. Others use holdouts to good effect. Check your pacing. You go from one phase to the other so fast that I imagine a lot of the magic gets trampled. Of course, if you did that to keep the file size down...OK. Make sure in performance you concentrate on the entertaining more than the moves and just "getting through it." Finally, your final load sequence needs some work. Get the timing down, so the audience's attention is elsewhere when you steal your load. Also, that may not be the best place to store them, as you look like you're reaching--and it's obvious. Still looks pretty good, though. You're obviously putting in the work!
I need a stage name.
Joe Berkley |
|||||||||
Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Thanks for the comments. I'll try my best to set up a microphone the next time.
When I do the next one I'll do it as I perform it for one of my family. That'll give a better idea of the routine. I'll work on my loads. That's one part I have to work on a lot. I am starting to make a magician's table so that might help out with that aspect a bit. In the passing of the wand to hide the ball... are you talking about something like what Johnny Paul does in his routine except he uses the cup? I usually use some wand vanishes but as you said I was trying to keep the file size down. The next time I won't worry and it still shouldn't be all that much bigger. If you have any more things you think I should work on just post your idea. I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks again for watching, Steven. |
|||||||||
Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-17 09:38, magical_steve wrote: Great, much, much better! I love your enthusiasme to work on it and to improve your handling.. You're on your way, keep analyzing and smoothing out the moves. As mentioned by Roland Henning, it is important to have the verbal 'approach' too, so the best thing to do is at least to have a single spec with you to adress, better 2 specs, one on each site of you. The reason simply is that shifting your gaze form one to the other can cover up a lot. BUT, as said, your on your way, just keep going.. The final loads are today well covered by the table, maybe you also should look into the circumstances you normally would perform this under, meaning the specs -if they are standing/ streetwork- have an entirely different angle to watch from, and this even goes for ppl sitting, when using a table of 'normal' heights, unless you provide your own table. A good friend of mine, the best C&B worker (IMHO) I've ever seen, does the C&Bs under almost any condition.. I even have seen him doing it at a bar, where the disk is very high, and doing it for specs at his side as well as the girl behind the bar, for which he worked for/adressed..but he also adressed the specs at his side, f.ex. covering the loads by touching them at their elbow and hereby covering the loads, aso. I think one shouldn't solely rely on being able to cover the load(s) behind a table of suitable heigth, f.ex. BUT, again, you are on your way..somnetimes it looks like -as on earlier videos- you have to 'think' about what comes next, so some more 'flow' is needed, but this will come with practise, I'm impressed you are really working on improving your handling, not all magicians are willing to accept 'nasty' critisme, and sometimes they shouldn't.. They shouldn't, when they get good reactions from ppl watching, recations as reactions should be.. Main thing for you is to go out and do the C&Bs, for paying or not paying ppl, it doesn't matter, as long as you do it for 'normal ppl'.. Make the mistakes that always will happen for anybody when doing a new routine, but try to notice what wents wrong and why.. The only way to learn to do the thing smoothly, is to go out and do it for ppl, this will teach one a lesson, and can only improve ones work! BUT, this doesn't mean one still should and can think theoretically about what could be improved.. Don't count on what magicians say..they are not always right, and this includes me too.. You have to learn it the hard way, trust only yourself, and trust the reactions of your specs.. Good luck..I've commented enough and will keep my big fat mouth shut, especially as I don't do the C&bs anymore..I did..but I moved 'on', at least that is how I look at it.. The C&Bs are GREAT, but one really has to do them outstandingly well..the specs can have a hard time to follow what's going on, but I still love to se a good C&B routine well performed, and so does the layaudience.. When mentioning I 'moved on', I meant, I nowaday do a routine that is easier for the specs to follow, using instead of 3 cups and 3 balls just a bowl and 3 large sponges, as I had to agree with what Roy Benson said..a routine of that kind should be easy to follow for the specs.. BUT, as mentioned, keep it going, a good C&B routine can't be beaten..and the friend I mentioned, can even beat my Benson Bowl by miles doing his C&B routine, but it also is the best I've ever seen.. Let me say something I know most will not like to hear.. I've seen Michael Skiner do his C&B routine and as much as I admire and like most of what Michael Skinner did, I din't particulary fall in love with his C&B routine..maybe the reason is, I have seen better.. Anyway..congrats..you'r on your way, but there still is a long way, never stop trying to improve what you do, before many years and performances have passed..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
|||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Steve:
This is much better. I'll PM you with a couple of suggestions that have not yet been given. And some that have -- just worded differently. You have been working. I can tell.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Bill, let 'us' have any general tip you would suggest re the C&Bs too
I can't imagine they are only valuable for Steve's routine...I love to hear dif. opinion re handling the C&Bs.. Have you ever seen f.ex. Michael Skinners routine when he was in his prime? IMHO, there was lot of room for improvment, and his final loads wheren't too perfect either. His ballsplitting move was 'strange' the sudden jerks of his hands he made, looked strange, f.ex. That's why any thoughts always are valuable, coming from ppl who have done the C&Bs regulary...
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
|||||||||
rikbrooks Inner circle Olive Branch, Mississippi 1317 Posts |
I agree Bill. You watched my cups and balls video and with just a few words it improved massively! I've come to respect your eye. Any advice you might have for our brave young magician would likely help the rest of us as well.
Steven, this is oh so much better. There is still a lot of room for improvement though, but parts of this routine are 'there'. Of course your final loads need work. I can see you reaching down for them. Is your servant too low? Also, you reach for those final loads with no misdirection at all. It's as if you are saying, "Hold on while I take this surprise load out from the bag that I have hanging around my knees, no, don't look here!" You need to be doing something with the hand that is NOT going for the final load. I don't care what it is, You have to draw my eye away from that reaching hand. I do a routine based on Bannon's routine in Impossibilia. He loads each final load on the off beat. I like that. Put a ball into your pocket WHILE REACHING FOR ANOTHER CUP and when the hand leaves the pocket the load is in it. He had a reason to go into the pocket other than to grab a load. He was putting away a ball - and the other hand flourishing a cup takes your eye off that loading hand anyway. |
|||||||||
Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
I found this clothes sorter which with my pad on top make a table of the perfect height so that won't be a problem any more.
Also what I might do about the loads is as I am putting the ball away, then take the load. As I am taking the load I'll show my hand is empty so the ball is really in the pocket and then do a vernon wand spin or two and tap the cups. (I know that's very long to steal a load but it can be a just in case sort of thing. I just need to practice the final load sequence a lot on its own so that no nerves will come when I do in my full routine. Thanks again for everyone's help, Steven. |
|||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I didn't want to harp on this, and also some of it needs to go into Secret Sessions, I think. But my main comments had to do with pacing, but there is something about the final loads.
So, I am going to post an item in the Secret Sessions concerning final load logic. Here it is: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......37&0 I also want to add that Steven Pillay is truly dedicated to the cups and balls. He must practice at least 2 or 3 hours a day. He is making tremendous progress.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Thanks Bill Palmer. I really appreciate the comment. I'm definately making progress with the final loads. It's a slow enough process but I'm definately getting there.
One question though. Is it OK to use a shelf beneath the table for the final loads or is it essential do them from the pockets? I never really wear trousers, I usually wear jeans or chords and the pockets aren't exactly loose. So when I wear jeans I have to struggle to get the loads out of my pocket. The shelf just seems a good easy solution to the problem. |
|||||||||
Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Absolutely! Use whatever solves your problems. At one time Michael Ammar went as far as modifying his clothes to create extra large back pockets in his suit pants. Of course he couldn't take off his jacket without looking like he was wearing diapers under his clothes, but at the time it worked. Since then he changed to loading from his jacket pockets, which required a different technique and misdirection.
Gazzo wears a pouch around his waist to hold his loads. At one time Cellini did too. Others use a table servante (that's the name of what you are considering). It doesn't necessarily have to be a "shelf" it can be a bag or pouch that hangs behind the table. You don't want people to see the loads if they see the sides of the table, so the depth of the bag helps. Check out my Photo Gallery for my Street Rig photo that clearly shows this. This bag can hold my entire show, and can hide as many as ten baseballs (five in each side) if I chose to do so.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
|
|||||||||
bunkyhenry Special user NYC Metro 828 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-10-18 18:28, magicman845 wrote: Well put, Magicman. |
|||||||||
Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Dave, what you mention is -of course- true..
*Use whatever solves your problems.* Howver one should add one simple thing to this.. Use whatever solves your problems, as long as the solution is practical!!! Carrying a table around is OK for a streetperformer and it is OK to be used at fairs. Doing the C&Bs at a private party, cooperative work aso. though doesn't allow a performer to carry a table around, neither is it practical or possible, when 'just' doing the routine for family and friends in THEIR home.. Note what Cellin did! He even got a tailored, special suit/trousers for his final loads, meaning he even skipped the pouch! (A pouch BTW is a good thing and practical too, and this even goes for performances at parties or in ppls private homes!) Though Cellini wanted to do it the easy way...putting his trousers one, putting the stuff inside and he's ready! That's the way to go A pouch though is OK, IMHO, carrying a table around all the time is neither OK nor practical. IMHO, one should be able to do the C&B anytime/anywhere, where a table, ANY table is around.. I do know performers who CAN do it..and I can do my version of the *Benson-Bowl*,-which is the same as doing the C&Bs- under the same conditions..point me to a table, any table at all, any tableheight and I do the routine..without carrying my own table around.. Just 'my' thoughts on the subject... One more comment and this mainly because it actually surprised me too when I saw it, I almost didn't believe my own eyes.. One of the best C&B workers I've ever seen, once did the C&Bs for me wearing tight jeans, very tight jeans, actually I even have it captured on tape! Nevertheless, he did his routine flawless including the final laods!! I wondered too. Anyway, I also have to mention, that his final loads in this case wheren't 'that' large, but they where around a little less then 2 inches diam. balls. I also have to mention, that he,when working professionally does use trousers with very large trouserspockets.. Quote:
On 2004-10-18 18:28, magicman845 wrote: Correct, but that goes for all routines.. Those having seen (and heared) Dai Vernon presenting the C&Bs, most certainly are not in doubt re what 'the best' approach is.. But -of course- he was one of a kind and could get away with any patter at all, he was a fascinating storyteller as all who ever have heared him talk know, when he was looking back and babling about the old days.. BUT, in case of the C&Bs, he didn't tell a 'story'.. TBH, I dislike storytricks unless they are very fascinating and entertaining..a good story can boost up any effect incredibly, an example is the *Las Vegas* patter Cellini does use when doing the slotmachine. Those having seen 'Mike' Gordon Miller doing the 'Afghanistan Bands' will never forget the impact a simple and old trick can make by using well thought out patter.. His routine is about as good as any can be, it is more entertaining then when most do the C&Bs.. BUT, in general, 'stories' are not always the best solution, unless one is a VERY good storyteller and very few magicians are.. Therefor the example of Dai Vernon doing the C&Bs..listen to him, listen to what he says when doing his routine and so get on the right track re accompanying patter
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
|||||||||
Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-20 10:52, Werner G. Seitz wrote: Of course, that part was assumed. If it's impractical, then it doesn't really solve your problem, it just creates new ones. Quote:
Carrying a table around is OK for a streetperformer and it is OK to be used at fairs. I didn't suggest he carry around a table, but he was considering building some sort of shelf, which implied he'd have to carry his table with him anyway. I was suggesting a soft pouch alternative to be used as a servante to convert his existing work surface. Another alternative is for him to simply perform seated and have the loads in his lap. Quote:
Note what Cellini did! Talk about impractical! Steven is young, and just learning. I wouldn't imagine he'd be in any position to have clothing specially tailored for this. I'd rather see him get a routine down and a few years under his belt before suggesting he customize his wardrobe. Quote:
Though Cellini wanted to do it the easy way...putting his trousers one, putting the stuff inside and he's ready! That's the way he eventually went, after using a front pouch, back pouch, before going for tailored pockets and a jacket topit. I agree that a pouch is the most versatile for most situations. But since I'm a big Gazzo fan, you could probably guess I was going to say that. I don't plan on the huge final loads of Gazzo's routine, so for now I have a "Cellini" style pouch. I can wear it around my waist, drape it across a chair, strap it under a (borrowed) table or tray stand, whatever. For large loads some sort of pouch is essential. For smaller pocket sized loads he can get away with less, as long as the loads are easily accessable. Right now, looking at his videos I would say he needs either looser pants, a servante, or a pouch.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
|
|||||||||
Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-20 19:56, Dave VanVranken wrote: Dave, just one comment re the above.. One doesn't have to get special trousers tailored for this. (Cellini has, but this is because he is used to load 'from the front' like from a pouch) One simply has to choose -when buying a new pair of trousers- some with large pockets and a large 'opening' of the pockets too. It can be difficult these days, but they exist.. The opening of the pocket should be at least 17 cm, that's what I aim for, when buying readymade trousers, and if they are that size, the rest of the pocket normally follows the need, enabeling one to have some quite large loads. Also, one can get made/replaced the pockets rather cheap -by a seamstress- with 'deeper' ones, if they are not deep enough.. Actually this is cheaper then buying some of the high priced 'tricks of the trade' one never does use .. PS. I also would suggest a pouch for our friend to use, in any case, instead of carrying around a table, but a good pouch too is rather expensive, unless one can find an inexpensive canvas one at a store (those canvas ones exist, I've seen some here locally), BUT pouchloads aren't 'that' easy to execute and are slightly different in technic then pocketloads. Also, when using a pouch he should establish it's use by f.ex. removing the cups from it at the beginning of the routine, unless he first does other routines using props out of the pouch. Not everybody is 'a' *Gazzo* and 'just' can attach the pouch before going into the C&Bs, most will fail doing it that way, as attaching a pouch right before the routine does signal it as part of the following 'act'..Gazzo can do this but he has countless yeasr of experience.. I most certainly wouldn't advice attaching a pouch right before the C&B performance for anybody else.. In any case, the pouch has to be somewhere and in case of a streetperformance there is also the table where it can be attached until it comes into use. Other venues in any case will have the perofrmers wearing the pouch already, partys, cooperative work, private homes, aso. so wearing a pouch there when they know a performer is appearing is quite OK.. BUT, pouchloads have to get established too by various means..and this means f.ex. ones hand(s) has/have to rest once in a while inside the pouch when no trickery is going on. On the street this too is a natural thing, as if ones hands get cold in the weather, and so rest sometimes momentarily inside the pouch. If smal balls are replaced in the pouch the hand entering it, is OK, but NOT just going inside for grabbing a load, unless that 'going inside' is established via earlier 'resting'-moves inside the pouch, as above mentioned.. Just my own thoughts on the subject..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
|||||||||
Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
Hi. Just to let you know I have deleted my first two rotuines from my webspace but the can be found at:
http://www.magicvideodepot.com/view.php?a=v&t=3875 and http://www.magicvideodepot.com/view.php?a=v&t=5053 Just in case anyone wants a look (doubtful). I'm working on a patter at the minute thanks to an ever helpful Bill Palmer who gave me an idea for a patter for the routine. I'm making great progress with my final loads thanks to all of you. I've also finished my close-up table... I might post a few pictures on my site another time for anyone who might want some ideas in the same are. Thanks again to everyone, Steven. Yes yes another vid... OK this vid has a storyline patter using the first names of the people who have been the best help to me on this forum. The quality isn't great and it skips a couple of times (I don't know why, that never happened before). But it shouldn't create too much of a problem. Also my voice doesn't sound like that. It happened when I changed it into a lower quality. Here's the link: http://homepage.eircom.net/~pillaypdsl/Cups_Balls/cb7.wmv ENJOY!!! and give me loads of feedback. Thanks in advance, Steven. |
|||||||||
Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts |
I couldn't understand what you were saying. But the routine surely has developed. You are making progress. Good work.
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups and Balls vid (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.1 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |