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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
I read Radi's faith healers some time ago.
It sparked my thinkning about some other practices I believe may be baised mostly on suggestion. I'd really like to know what most mentalist make of things like Thi chi, Healing of all types, etc. I want to know if you believe in some of the new age treetments or even old age treetments and what one's do you think are just a load of nonsence. As we all know most mentalist have a very logical frame of mind, it's why I would mostly trust a mentlist opinion first. What do you guys think, H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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Markymark Inner circle 1686 Posts |
I practice a Chinese martial art-Wing Chun. I also trained in Aikido. The whole Ki-Chi thing may be exagerated but if you believe it flows through you arms
it does! If you don't believe it doesn't so. So! I don't know if inner energy really exists but acupuncture treats blockages of this energy and does work for some people. My old Aikido teacher used to have 4 people try and lift him from his chair and be unable to. Years later when I found out about the magnetic girl principles I thought this is what he used...but the Lulu hearst principles don't explain everything these Aikido guys can do. Derren Brown put that 'Frame' to great effect didn't he? Ever see old footage of Bruce Lee's 1 inch punch...WOW!!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
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darkseance Loyal user UK 241 Posts |
I've experienced the one inch punch first hand. An old collegue of mine performed it on me first on my hand, and it snapped back hard, then he tried it with a text book at my chest, it knocked me back severel feet, and stung a lot! Fascinating, apparently he could control the flow through his arms and out of his fist. There was no push just a very powerful snap.
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Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
But what happens when you discover Real Magic? Can you keep your balance with a foot in each of the worlds? Mentalism, wherein you control the event horizon, and these higher energies, wherein you do not?
Try getting attuned to Reiki if you want a kick in the Philosophical groin. I'd opt for the opinion, that yes, these things are very real, Skeptic's blather notwithstanding.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
Personally I'm a fan of Banacheks writing called Remedy of an old witch Doctor and liked Luke Jermays Expansion on it.
I'll elabourate more later. H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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ceeswing Regular user 121 Posts |
"I practice a Chinese martial art-Wing Chun.I also trained in Aikido.The whole Ki-Chi thing may be exagerated but if you believe it flows through you arms it does!."
I practice Wing Chun for a long time and I realy can puch you from a distance of 5 cm extremly hard but I never mixed it up with a mental effect. Regards Cornelius France |
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johne Special user 960 Posts |
I am trained in Aiki-jitsu, and have never experienced anything like the one inch punch. I did attent a seminar by a guy that could take a serious kick to the groin, and a punch to the throat. He was on That's Incredible. I still ask myself why.
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Osiris Special user 610 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-10-26 19:45, Tom Jorgenson wrote: There is a "mid-point" between the perceptions of the believer and the narrowmindedness of the skeptic in which "truth" can be found around this kind of issue. Aside from decades invested into the Martial Arts I have also spent a great deal of my time studying and researching the esoteric or "occult" arts & sciences. A few years ago I came across an interesting booklet about some of the "Magick" that's associated with Buddhist Llamas. Long story short, the "lesson" of this tome was why would anyone strive to be able to do these more mystical things other than ego and ego negates actual spiritual nutrality and growth or "balance" as it were. A position I found to be very interesting. Similarly, in the world of Western Occult tradition, we have the myths that envelope the Druids, a supposedly mystical society that once enveloped most of Europe and parts of Asia Minor and into the "Holy Lands"... some anthropological studies even suggest that the "Essenes" were part of this ancient order. Anywho... the "Magick" of the Druids was based on intellect and science. Though they had their rites and rituals associated with the Pagan holy days, their actual strengths leaned on the perpetuation of knowledge and being able to share genuine wisdom with the masses in a manner that was subtle and allowed the less educated, their level of understanding. Does Magick Exist? Yes! I will not negate that reality. I've seen far too much over the years, including medical miracles. On the other hand, I see it as being a form of science and much of what is testified about regarding Healing Energy, etc. will, within the not so distant future, become validated and explainable. Modern science simply hasn't cultivated the instruments for meassuring such... let's give it some time. After all, there is currently a High Tech game on the market that uses your bio-rythms to move a small ball around a table in a telekenetic manner (it was recently demonstrated on the TODAY show.) |
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magicinsight Inner circle 4293 Posts |
I have traveled extensively through Thailand and Bali and the surrounding Islands and have studied and practiced Buddhism and Buddhist meditation. The use of breathing as a focal point of meditation is fundamental to the development of being aware, not ncessarily of controling, your own body movements and feelings and thoughts. The application of this and other known Buddhist meditation techniques could probably be applied to certain "mentalism" demonstrations if done with the appropriate respect, seriousness and attitude in the right circumstances.
Perhaps in a demonstration of stopping your or the spectator's pulse or even a watch may be an appropriate demonstratio of the power and effectiveness of controlling and focusing one's mind. Perhaps demnostrating the power of Buddhist or other Eastern mediation techniques to acquire and enhance one's mindfulness can be shown in a standard book test or a design duplication effect, again as long as it is done with the utmost seriousness and understanding. I would not suggest doing these type of classic mentalism effects as a foundation of the power and effectiveness of meditation unless one is well versed in the history and philosophy of Buddhism and mediation. But if done correctly and with conviction, this type of display of mindfulness and the power of meditation demonstrated through basic mentalism effects can be quite interesting and entertaining to an audience under the right circumstances. Best regards, Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver |
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ceeswing Regular user 121 Posts |
Just to share this, its no fake but me on a trip in Indonisia in 1992 where a local teacher shows me a keris meditation. It actualy moves in the wind and when you try to lift the keris you feel a magnetic force.
Kind regards Cornelius France P.S. If You PM me I can sent a better picture. Click here to view attached image. |
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procyonrising Special user New York 698 Posts |
Okay, I learned the one and three-inch punches from Dan Inosanto, a student of Bruce Lee's. Dan can hit someone three times his size and have him fall backwards (if he hit them without the protective phonebook, they'd drop like a rock, crying). I asked him if it was chi-power or some type of special technique. His answer? No. Basically, he say that, with the right breathing and technique, most of this stuff can be done by anyone. Breathing and technique--that's it. No special energy, no special power. This is coming from a guy who's a living legend.
Okay, tai chi, meditation, yoga, and others. I work for the Institute for Mind/Body Research and Education, a non-profit that studies these things empirically and tries to make them easy for the public to understand. As a hypnotist speaking about suggestion, things like meditation and yoga and biofeedback differ from hypnosis in only two ways: 1. They are not processes that enhance suggestibility. 2. They are not processes that open the user up to new positive experiences via post-hypnotic suggestion. That's it. Recently, I applied for a Fulbright grant to study the effects of self-hypnosis on HIV-related emotional stress (in Uganda). These two points saved my proposal from being used as tinder--or toilet paper. For the sake of completeness; what do I think of healing and things like Tai Chi? I like them. However, I think the more salient question here is: "what do I think causes the phenomena we see?" I think it's evolutionary. If we consider the psychotherapeutic definition of suggestion--which says that in an ambiguous situation, you're more likely to have influence--it comes down to social influence. So, imagine you're a caveman (or woman, whichever makes you happier...), you're part of a small group of very hairy people who hunt and gather seeds all day. One day, you're attacked. Everyone's dying all around you. You know you should either run or fight, but you're not sure which and you're not sure how. However, out of the corner of your eye, you see someone fighting. And they seem to know exactly what they're doing. And they're being successful. So you follow, blindly. I think this is why suggestion is such a powerful force on humans and why it seems to diminish with more education. It calls back to a time when humans had to follow the strong and decisive and the confident in order to survive. Spontaneous healing? I think that's a lot like suggestion in this sense, where you're assuming control of the person's sense of agency to the extent that you can access parts of him that may be normally inhibited (this inhibition being important in day-to-day living, for instance, not stretching your body's capacity for immunomodulation). And, I think that's why faith healing works. It's suggestive, sure, but it works because it accesses various things that call upon things that evolution has built into us. Okay. I'll stop now. Best, James. |
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ceeswing Regular user 121 Posts |
"I asked him if it was chi-power or some type of special technique. His answer? No. Basically, he say that, with the right breathing and technique, most of this stuff can be done by anyone. Breathing and technique--that's it. No special energy, no special power."
James, I can mention at least 5 teachers who say you can use internal and external power. Its basic for advanced levels of Wing Chun training. So I don't agree with that statement. Regards Cornelius France |
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
I really appreciate your responce on this procyonrising, it's in the line of what I'm looking for
I like the idea that perception is not truth, perception can be flawed. H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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Natural Mystic Special user Atlanta, GA 509 Posts |
Ceeswing'
_________________________________ I can mention at least 5 teachers who say you can use internal and external power. Its basic for advanced levels of Wing Chun training. So I don't agree with that statement. __________________________________ I found a way to simulate chi flow. In fact,I demonstrated how chi flows to my wife and childern, then I asked them if they felt anything and they said they did. I combined that demonstration with Kundalini Rising. I had my wife visualize her card while letting the chi flow through arm at the same time, my wife and childern almost freaked. I demonstrated how chi flows on one of my co-workers and he said he felt something, he looked at me strange all that day. I plan to combine the chi flow demonstration with the hand clasp and eye lid test on volume 3 of Richard Osterlind DVD, as convincers for my upcoming show. Also, I studied Tai-Chi and Wing Tsun many years ago while stationed in Germany and San Francisco. Tai-Chi is considered to be an internal martial art like Aikido. I think one is apt to experince chi flow with a soft or internal style. Peace.
"You never change the existing reality by
fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete." -- R. Buckminster Fuller |
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procyonrising Special user New York 698 Posts |
Hey Cornelius,
I've also trained with a few Wing Chun people. Though, primarily with Francis Fong (he's in the Kung-Fu Hall of Fame); however, Phillip Holder's a friend (he's got that tape series through Panther AND he's a fellow hypnotist I often speak with at various conventions). Yes. I can understand why they'd argue for internal and external power. It's terminology endemic to the culture of martial arts. What we're talking about here, however, is empiricism (and that's what Dan's talking about too). If someone came in and studied the martial arts WITHOUT getting into its terminology and folklore, they'd call the differences between external and internal "power" differences in the application of breathing and technique. That's it. A good parallel to this would be Ben Franklin's assessment of Mesmer and Mesmerism. Basically, he said that Mesmerism wasn't some kind of magnetic force in the body, rather, it's the excitation of imagination--a comment born from experimentation (e.g in one case, Franklin had Mesmer magnetize an object, then, people were handed the object along with an identical, non-magnetized object. Although people did go into seizures, sometimes these were caused by the magnetized object, sometimes by the unmagnetized object; thus, it's not the magnetism causing the seizures). Yes, it's not very romantic, but it's empirical--all it does is describe what happens, nothing more. Franklin didn't intentionally destroy Mesmer's reputation, all he did was describe--as objectively as possible--what was going on. And I think that's what Dan does. He's studied all this stuff, and he's studied with the very best; and, he just describes what he's learned. No dogma, no "theory." (And, need I remind you, Bruce Lee came from a Wing Chun background... and said the same thing about chi power). Lastly, as artists in this weird and wonderful art, we're all aware of body magic, suggestion, and illusion. Can some swami mystic bend a metal rod by pushing it against his neck? Sure. But I've seen magicians do the same thing. We all know methods can be disturbingly simple. Now, am I saying that every amazing thing someone does can be replicated with ease? No. Obviously, there's a lot of training involved with controlling various bodily processes, but it's more akin to proper technique than mysticism. For instance, regurgitation (as in a regurgitation act). Amazing stuff, however, it takes work--alot of work. Likewise, using meditation to heal faster. Amazing stuff, but it takes work. Practice, not dogma. Is it some kind of special power? No. It's a refinement and mastery of concrete technique. Let me give you a few more examples: - eating lightbulbs and glass - walking on fire (hot coals) - Georgia Magnet stuff - hypnosis (more specifically, hypnotic pain control) - sitting on a bed of nails - David Blaine's card tricks At some time or another, someone has attributed these things as products of supernatural powers. And, however "real" any of these may seem, there exists a mechanical and replicable "technique" to all of them. Moreover, the same way a weightlifter lifts more weight with time and training, so do your skills improve with practicing the techniques involved in any of the above--including the martial arts. Sure, some are harder to do than others, and all take work, but can we as mentalists call these things supernatural? A product of "internal power?" C'mon buddy. Granted, you're French, but you've got to know better than that... - James. P.S. Kidding! I love the French. |
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Darko Dojin Regular user DGAF 163 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-10-28 16:10, ceeswing wrote: The one inch punch is pure kinesiology. It is a direct application of body dynamics causing a 'sine wave' motion that generates tremendous force. The action starts from the feet, is amplified by the twisting of the hip which is transfered through the shoulder and the arm and is released through the strong contraction of the forearm muscles and the upturning 'snap' of the wrist. No chi involved. It is a technique of Wing Chun, the only form of martial arts developed by a woman and stresses the use of physics to generate maximum force with minimum effort. I should know: I studied Wing Chun under Master Moy Yat and Jeet Kune Do under both Paul Vunak and his teacher, Dan Inosanto and have been a practicing martial artist for over 20 years. Wing Chun, Tae Kwon Do, Muay Thai and Karate are all deemed to be 'hard' styles, styles that stress physical force and conditioning whereas Tai Chi Chuan, Chi Kung, Pa Kua are called 'soft' styles stress gentleness and the cultivation of 'chi' energy. In practice many martial arts styles combine a degree of 'hard' and 'soft'. Shaolin kung fu is a case in point. In the advanced levels of Wing Chun you don't so much learn about 'chi' as develop a sensitivity to energy flow within combat. In many respects, the exercise of 'sticking hands' is a highly developed form of muscle reading where constant contact with an opponent's arms allow you to anticipate and counter attacks but whether chi has any bearing on the inch punch is doubtful. In many ways this is an urban myth perpetuated by Bruce Lee fans. The majority of so called 'chi' stunts are merely stunts that rely on basic physics but if anyone doubts the existence of real 'chi' energy I know of many Masters who will cause you to reassess. The Shaolin monks of China also perform 'chi' stunts that truly defy explanation. |
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John Nesbit Inner circle United States 1421 Posts |
Healing and Chi, or how to use energy to transform suffering into health. Which is why most people practice Tai Chi in the world. It is the most widely practiced form of exercise today.
Skeptics argue that consciousness is nothing more than "random chemical reactions", virtually negating the existence of thought and intention. Kinentic energy alone is not the source of life, but the result of intention. Which is turn, the manifestation of a thought. Where now do these "thoughts" originate ? At the Quantum level (Quantum Physics). As for martial arts, the first and last defense we have is the mind. And most effective when in a non-defensive mode. The course of least resistence is the same as Tai Chi's philosophy of yeilding, to attain the maximum source of power. Meditation, quieting the mind, expanding consciousness, pure being, Yoga,( the quest for the true self)= Union. The Universe (one song). Everything, is Source. |
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joker 55 Special user England. 711 Posts |
Has anyoen seen the thing when the guy stands behind someone and without touching him the man infront falls over backwards, anyone got any ideas?
j55 |
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procyonrising Special user New York 698 Posts |
Yup. Do something just like that.
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-10-29 09:32, joker 55 wrote: I would guess that it works via the power of suggestion, which is basically how stage hypnosis works, I think. |
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