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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Cards and mentalism (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

gareth123
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Just wondering, the way I see magic is that anything is possible, but I want to perform a mentalism act by using the snap change card affect.

Any suggestions or am I living in a dream world.

Gareth Hobson.
*is tihs migac or am i sineg aonhter wlord in wihch i nveer lvied UNTILL NOW*
darkseance
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Would be difficult unless you were perhaps using a gambler or card sharp angle, an alternative and this is literally off the dome, an hallucination type premise???
bsmith
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I do an effect using Lennart Greens (snap?) color change and a mental card force from Psychological Subtleties. Basically, force them to think of a card. Show them the wrong card and as soon as it is placed on their palm it changes into the card they are thinking of. Any color change can be of good use because you can take advantage of the MIT (magician in trouble) principle. They feel a little sorry for you when you get it wrong, then you smack them in the face with a visual change into the card they are thinking of. The combination produces a very memorable and powerful effect.
prospero
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You really can't do mentalism using fancy stuff like that. Conceivably a mental-themed card effect like Robertson's idea, but if you're shooting for mentalism, fancy stuff like that won't work.

However, if you're EXTREMELY convincing, and possibly incorporating some other effects, you MIGHT be able to pull off a hallucination-type effect, as darkseance said.
Craig Crossman
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Prospero is absolutely correct. I primarily do mentalism with cards. And the one thing I maintain throughout is that I AM USING NO SLEIGHT OF HAND, no fancy moves, no digital dexterity, nada. And everything I perform makes that painfully obvious to the audience. I intentionally use no flourishes, no fancy moves, nothing.

Otherwise, they will think that what they are seeing is just a "card trick" and dismiss away what they have seen as nothing more than that.

:)
Ken Dyne
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PalmBeachGuy, I could not agree more. My journey to mentalism was a strange one. I first became interested in mentalism and then found that there was very little literatre available on the subhjject and felt myself forced into the realm of card magic. Once the mentalims craze took off I was able to follow my dream. However the transitionor forgetting the flourishes and preventing myself form performign them during a mental card routine is a difficult one and took me a great deal of time to accomplish. I must say I have it now.

However I would just like to ask anyone who has seen Derren Brown perform. In his lecture for International Magic he is performign mentalism with cards yet he still performs flourishes. The way this is acheived is in a comical way throug saying something like "i am not a card man" and them performign a one handed riffle shuffle or something. So may be it can work?

Just a few thoughts,
Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
Vision
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Yes you are living in a dream world
www.awonderfulmind.blogspot.com
check it out for new products.
francisco
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Quote:
On 2004-10-29 06:02, Vision wrote:
Yes you are living in a dream world


lol!

-Francisco
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'

[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism]
Craig Crossman
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Kennedy,

My magic background included learning the moves required to do card tricks. I started when I was 13. I truly believe that learning about the classics of magic is an excellent foundation to have before becoming a mentalist!

That said, and while I avoid using any of them during my mentalism demonstration, I actually do perform ONE card trick! And I SAY that it IS a "card trick." I do it about mid-point in my performance and the REASON I give for doing it is to "break things up." It's almost like a kind of "Intermission" for them. To give them a pause from all the amazing mentalism. And you know what? It works! They love it. It's almost like I'm letting them in on some kind of secret!

But actually, I'm sort of setting them up. Because I tell them that although it IS a "card trick," they will find no relief because this particular card trick is so impossible, they still won't be able to use the "sleight-of-hand" rationale. "After all," I say, "Mentalism is a tough act for a card trick to follow. So I chose one that you still won't be able to dismiss away."

Gets them every time!!

:)
Christian
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Whether to use cards in a mentalism act is debatable. There are a lot of successful mentalists who use cards in their act.
However, ist strongly depends on what you want to convey as to psychic powers. If you want to try the trance/hallucination corner, it might be preferable not to use playing cards, but maybe some other props like postcards, pictures etc. in order to dilute the spectators from the thought "oh...just a card trick...my uncle does that, too"
Craig Crossman
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Christian,

I'm sure that some mentalism purists will say that no props whatsoever should be used. I certainly have no problem with that. Others use some props. That's fine too. In my case, almost my entire presentation uses playing cards. In fact, that's how I introduce myself to the audience.

I tell them that as with any profession, there are people who specialize within their area of expertise. In my particular case, I am a mentalist who uses cards. I begin by explaining that they are about to see a demonstration of mentalism using playing cards. I further explain how this differs from magicians who do card tricks. And I am also very careful not to in any way denigrate what it is that magicians do. I just want to prepare my audience to expect something very different. And that's exactly what they get! Smile

So I agree with the inference in your post: If it works successfully for you, then do it! Smile
bsmith
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I guess if you wanted to adhere strictly to the boundaries of a traditional mentalism act then maybe you should stay clear of a color change. If you decide to make your own boundaries then anything is possible as long as it fits well with your performance style.

In the example I used above, the color change happens at a perfect moment that suits me and the drama of the situation. I show the wrong card to the spectator and say -- "This is the card you are thinking of!" - 'no, it's not' --"Are you sure?" -'uhh yeah, sorry, that’s not it' -- "Hold out your palm... take a closer look (execute c.c - they see the wrong card up until the moment it is placed on their palm)
This never comes off as fancy sleight of hand. If anyone is familiar with the color change I am using then they will know.

Another idea that I like is palmbeachguy's "intermission" showing of a card trick. Try out different ways to incorporate the color change into your act and see what works for you. If the effect seems out of place or you feel that it takes away from everything else then get rid of it. Most people's Acts constantly change anyway and a small trial of a color change shouldn't take away from the overall performance.

Best,
Robertson
mysticz
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Quote:
On 2004-10-29 14:25, PalmBeachGuy wrote:

In my case, almost my entire presentation uses playing cards. In fact, that's how I introduce myself to the audience.

I tell them that as with any profession, there are people who specialize within their area of expertise. In my particular case, I am a mentalist who uses cards. I begin by explaining that they are about to see a demonstration of mentalism using playing cards. I further explain how this differs from magicians who do card tricks. And I am also very careful not to in any way denigrate what it is that magicians do. I just want to prepare my audience to expect something very different. And that's exactly what they get! Smile


While I am sure that your audience is mystified and entertained by your show, I am equally sure that they will most likely perceive you as a magician/trickster, not as a mentalist. Unfortunately, the connection between magic/magicians/conjuring and playing cards is a strong one in the minds of "lay people" who will immediately assume "card trick" for most anything you perform with a pack of cards.

IMO and experience, a mentalist should be very careful about how he/she chooses to use playing cards in a mentalism performance -- preferably, rarely or not at all.

Joe Z.
Joe Zabel
"Psychic Sorcery"

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

-- Shakespeare's Hamlet I.v. 174-175
Craig Crossman
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Quote:
On 2004-10-29 15:21, mysticz wrote:
While I am sure that your audience is mystified and entertained by your show, I am equally sure that they will most likely perceive you as a magician/trickster, not as a mentalist. Unfortunately, the connection between magic/magicians/conjuring and playing cards is a strong one in the minds of "lay people" who will immediately assume "card trick" for most anything you perform with a pack of cards.

Joe,
You make some valid points in your post, especially the one regarding lay people associating playing cards to magicians doing card tricks. I know this to be true because I personally experienced it many times as I continued to refine my show. But let me assure you however, that my current presentation completely dispels that mind set. Throughout the many years, I have honed my demonstration to the point that it is now painfully obvious to the observer that no sleight-of-hand is being used whatsoever (and by the way, I really don't use any which really helps to drive home that point!). And it has paid off in spades (pun intended!).

Everything is done very carefully, slowly and deliberately, directly in front of them. There are no flourishes of any kind. From the expressions of disbelief and awe on their faces as they are confronted with one impossibility after another, I know this to be true. It is a VERY rewarding experience for me to see that happen!

So while I agree with your point about the STRONG association of cards to "card tricks," I must point out that my current presentation does a VERY effective job of successfully dispelling that belief!
:)
shrink
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I think cards can be used well in mentalism. It depends on how you use them and the persona of the performer..Like Palm Beach guy says its the presentation and "tests" tou use them for. In some ways they are better than zenner cards because they are more "normal" everyday items.

Just my opinion..
Craig Crossman
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Joe,

And oh yes, one other thing leads me to believe that I have successfully bridged that gap. It's when someone who has seen my performance comes up to me afterwards and says that they enjoyed my demonstration of mentalism, or they name my performance using something that that has the word "mentalist" in it or "mind reading" or "ESP." I never hear them use the phrase "magic show" or "card tricks." That to me says I have done my job and done it well! Smile
BrainMagos
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PalmBeachGuy, can you tell us some of the effects you do when using cards in mentalism? Also do you use ESP cards or playings cards?
Craig Crossman
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Hi Brain,

I do not use ESP cards as they are fairly uncommon to the average person. I don't want to use anything that might even suggest a gaff. So I only use Bicycle rider-back playing cards, both red and blue, poker size.

Most of the card effects I use in my performance are either of my own creation, or out of the mainstream. The ones that I do use from the mainstream are performed in a different way than was originally intended. I even combine some of them together so that the end result is something completely different. Actually, a lot of the fun for me in all of this is coming up with these new and different results.
:)
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