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k Loyal user Marseille 283 Posts |
Hello everyone,
Here's my question : Why buy DVDs? I'd rather read and learn from books than dvds as "les écrits restent...". And I just love the feeling of paper... So far, I own 0 DVDs... Back in the days, magicians didn't have any television, still they learned... I'm asking that question as I already have many books on coin work (Bobo, Roth, Ammar, Hooser, Watkins, Rubenstein, Hardbottle, Brewer, Ouellet, etc., and still enlarging my "collection". But Mickeal Rubinstein advised me some of his work that looks great (knockout and encyclopedia). But I just can't imagine myself sitting in front of tv learning from it... the only side step I took was ordering hundy 500 as I coudn't find it in a book and sylvesters I saw at a friends place. I know DVDs helps you as you can see how it should look like, but I have a cam and a lovely "assistant", I even surprised myself trying new routines in front of mirrors. So... Why should I go for DVDs (especially knowing they won't last as long as books (planning on a legacy). shouldn't I save my money for more reliable books and props (saving for some Todd and Jamie's coin). Cheers and thanks for your help and critics comforting or denying my choice. Ludwig
I'm just a blind Con that lost his I...
remember, Magic's everywhere... ("Your are the magic !" - Albert Goshman) "Voici mon secret. Il est très simple. On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux" St-Exupéry |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
Hi Ludwig, yours is a good question. I love to learn from books...in fact, it has been stated here many times on this Café forum that learning from books helps you to easier adapt a move to your style, and perhaps take you down a new path due to your interpretation. A DVD is essentially a movie of the performer, and you learn it according to his style and presentation. There is much less room for stylistic interpretation. That being said, some moves, techniques, or routines are not easily understood by book alone, especially if not written or illustrated well. And sometimes its nice to see the presentation and handling of a specific performer. On my DVD series, there are many routines and moves that have not yet seen print, so the DVD is the only place to find them. In my next book, I will have many moves, techniques, and presentations that won't be on any DVD. So, I think that the combination of the two is the best option!
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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Jaybs Special user 560 Posts |
I beleive that the reason some people prefer DVDs is because they learn better that way. All of us learn differently (linguistic, visual, spatial, etc.). I for one, prefer learning from videos as oppose to books simply because I am a visual learner. I am able to acquire things faster and easier when I can see something explained. However, I do use books as well because if I didn't, I would be missing out on a lot of great material/techniques. For example, I purchased the Card College Series, Bobo's Coin Magic, Expert at the Card Table, etc. Like Michael mentioned, a combination of the two would be the best option. Of course a better option would be being taught in person by that magician!;)
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phedonbilek Special user Greece, Cameroon, France 883 Posts |
K, cher ami (de Marseille, Peuchere),
You're right saying that back then magicians had no DVDs and still, they were learning. But think of this: had people back then phones, cars, machinery? That did not prevent them from communicating, travelling, producing. But no one will today deny the fact that we're working more efficiently with nowaday's technology. So, I personally think that books are fine, but DVDs enable one to learn better in general; I mean, you don't simply read and try to understand pictures, YOU JUST SEE THE MOVE. You might be, at the beginning, influenced by the performer's style, but once you got the move down I am convinced your natural style takes over. That's what, actually, happened with myself. And to further a bit more regarding my personal experience, there are some moves in BOBO's that I still cannot visualize; is it owing to the description? Owing to the single picture showing a coin and an arrow passing over the hand? To the fact english is not my first language?... I don't know. But I do know that I would have grasped the move if I saw it performed. That's my very humble point of view.
...The only easy day is yesterday...
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I studied Cylinder and Coins in John Carney's Carneycopia for several months before I found it on Video.
The first time I watched it I was blown away. I was new to magic at the time but still.. The difference was astounding. The movements and body language that are required to pull this off were brought to life only by the video. The combination of both is nice! I usually don't watch the video/dvd much after the first time but I do refer back to the books time and time again. Plus, they smell better.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
One big reason to learn from DVD's is that they are an excellent medium for teaching the material that's difficult to put into print - things like rubber bands, the Vernon wand spin, almost anything by Slydini and some rope work.
From a performer's standpoint, being able to see the flow of an effect can also be a big help. But the drawback is the obvious problem with copy-catting the material one sees on a DVD or a videotape. Some folks, just starting out, will copy exactly every move, every gesture, every line of the script, for every trick they learn. This can lead to a very confusing experience for the spectator if they should see someone who does a trick by Slydini, then one by Marlo and then one by Sankey - each done in exactly the style and manner of the creator of the specific effects. So, there's an upside - easy of learning and seeing the flow - and a down side - copy catting material and style. It's a good choice, though, for another reason - ease of reference. Unlike video tape, one can select and immediately view an effect on a DVD. To me, this is a very useful thing indeed. Overall, though, I love books more, but will continue to also use DVD and video tapes for my learning experience. Hope this helps! Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9519 Posts |
K, to each his own, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water here... DVDs are simply extentions to aid the learning process and they work. Reading is cool, if that's your thing (and really we all do that too) but seeing something clearly puts a better picture together of a thing in the mind of the learner. Still, it's your choice, but few people would choose NOT to know something the best they can. Good luck just the same.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Mike Walton Special user Chicago 984 Posts |
Most say and I believe that much of truly creating magic in the minds of your spectators comes from the performance and spectator interaction when doing magic. Many books spell out only technical handling and may put together spotty patter for an effect. What's missing is the misdirection, the premise of the routine, the timing, etc. which makes the effect astonishing.
Material should not be copied, but a magician has to see various effects performed, while understanding the handling, in order to learn the larger and important performance concepts. When a routine is effective, then one must ask "why did that work so well and what was the magician doing with his patter?" or "how did he create the emotional appeal?" And unless the author is a generous one and includes this information in his or her book, then one has to rely on video to see effective performance, especially as it relates to a particular effect. |
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k Loyal user Marseille 283 Posts |
Dear Humble Phedonbilek, "phan de pine" ;op
Dear all, Thnks for your vcaluable answers. I see the point that it's easier to actually SEE what it's supposed to look like... Still, I don't know... Mickeal, if I had to get dvds from you, ( as I i have to get one, I'd rather have an extensive one) what would you advise me between knoucnout or encyclopedia, knowing I'm not new (well rather new (3 or 4 years or so) to coin magic? and have an extensive library on the subject? Phenonbilek, Cher collegue! When I want to see how a trick should be performed, I just log myself to http://www.magicvideodepot.com and look for the trick then go back to my books... So I guess many magician back in the days didn't have this opportunioty... Frank, I see your point... that's why I use internet... watching demos and stuff really help, your right. I don't use and won't use limewire and ather P2P (they are killing magic businessn you can find every penguin or ellusionist video. I know for a fact as I've tried it, but don't like the idie. futrthermore, p2p just hacks you laptop... And I Too love the smell of book, it's my glue!!! Lee, I understand, one must not "copy" but add a touch of his own personnality! other wise it's just a ctlr C and ctlr V ;op But I ain't no chameleon!!! Mb217, I won't throw grandma in the nettles... take my word for it ! Mike, will I find some tips on misdirection or patter in dvd? Or should I just wait for my edition of strong magic by ortiz? So far, I'm still wondering... Cheers to all! Ludwig
I'm just a blind Con that lost his I...
remember, Magic's everywhere... ("Your are the magic !" - Albert Goshman) "Voici mon secret. Il est très simple. On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux" St-Exupéry |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
HiLudwig, if you're looking for new tricks and ideas, go with Knockout. If you're solely looking to upgrade your techniques, go with Encyclopedia. If you want to see some of the techniques in action, go with Knockout. Oh heck, buy them all!! Hope that helps!
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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amagish New user Dan Turcotte 57 Posts |
I think a person can learn a lot more with a combination of reading and visual tutorials. That is how I produce all of my lessons. You can go into the fine details with books. And you can reinforce what you teach on the videos. Then you can watch it performed in a real world no pre hyped situations. I think watching the live performances of a magician in action with real people shows if the person is a good entertainer.
All the best, Dan Turcotte YouDoMagic.com November 11, 2004 - 7:50 PM EST |
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Chevrie Regular user West Texas 120 Posts |
Ludwig,
You can't imagine yourself sitting in front of a TV trying to learn a trick, but you search for video demos on the internet? What just happened? |
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magic fett New user 45 Posts |
Reading is FUNdamental! You know I love going to lectures I love to see magicians perform. You don't get that from books, I buy DVD's because I enjoy watching magicians perform plain and simple. I think that picking up on their timing and pacing helps in some cases. Having said that however, I did and still do most of my learning from books.
Either way never discount any new way of learning something you think that if the guys and gals in the old days had access to DVD's they wouldn't use them? |
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Partizan Inner circle London UK 1682 Posts |
DVD/Videos offer a way of rapid education. Books offer a slower method that requires effort on the readers behalf.
I am reading between one and three books per fortnight, none of the books are magic instructional. If I want I rapid induction I tend to go with DVDs, My books are always there for reference but my preference is now for DVD learning. I knew nothing about engine mechanics until I bought a DVD tutorial. Now I can take one apart, fix it and put it all back together. This with only a few hours study. With DVD it is like having the lecturer in the room with you.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain |
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gene plampin Regular user 168 Posts |
I have difficulty learning from books. I once bought a Paul Harris book at a convention, and could not figure out how to do any of the effects from the book. Reading what I just typed makes me feel stupid. Yet I am an avid reader and I am in the process of getting a Ph.D which requires an extraordinary amount of reading. Yet I just can't learn magic well from a book or sometimes the instructions.
But show me, and I get it. I have Bobo's, Expert Coin Magic and CoinMagic, along with some very nice lecture notes. I tend to use the DVD's to see the sleights, the moves, the pacing, and the misdirection, but then go back to the books over and over to learn and practice. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Perhaps you have found a worth topic of a thesis in cognitive psychology.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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k Loyal user Marseille 283 Posts |
Nice one Jon...
I think I understand more when someone explain the trick... Not really when I see it. although I like "guessing how it's done when seing... I wonder the stats... Seing Vs theoretical comprehension. Doing vs knowing... Chevrie, tv and internet are 2 different things. tv in the saloon, internet everywhere... TV on a couch doing just tv internet anywhere surfing everywhere (and n the Café...) I dunno 2 different things for me...) Still, given all the advices here, I'll try to go with at least a set.. give it a try... Thank everyone...
I'm just a blind Con that lost his I...
remember, Magic's everywhere... ("Your are the magic !" - Albert Goshman) "Voici mon secret. Il est très simple. On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux" St-Exupéry |
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blwrjw Regular user The Top of the Mountains 177 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-11-11 22:45, magic fett wrote: Although I agree with other posters who noted out the good points about learning from both mediums, I really like this point. I don't have a lot of DVDs, but one thing I love about 'em is that I can skip the method/teaching part until *after* I've watched the peformance. It gives me a shot in the arm of that same awe and wonder from my childhood to see something first with no explanations -- it's a front row seat watching a real pro. In fact my favorite DVD has no step-by-step teaching sections at all, it focuses almost totally on the performance -- and it made my kids scream when they saw it. It's the Silver demo, of course. Barry
...before you go rushing off to show your friends a new field of miracles, you should get well acquainted with tools of the trade.
-- Tony Corinda One can never have enough socks... -- Albus Dumbledore |
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paulsmagic Regular user 130 Posts |
Watching someone do an effect over and over is easier for me when learning than reading a book. just a matter of opinion. repetition visually is an excellent way to learn.
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Chevrie Regular user West Texas 120 Posts |
I'm not sure I see the difference.
Sitting on the couch doing just TV. Sitting in front of the computer doing just the internet.... Why limit yourself to books and the internet? I have read books, looked at photographs, watched live performances, watched televised performances, watched movie film, video tape, DVD, internet video demos and even a few flip book movies. |
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