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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Busking vs Street Magic? (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ed rhodes
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This is true, but if you're good enough, you can pull it off. I'm not.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
johnnymystic
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All it takes is balls and determination...and 20 years experience!!!

johnny

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Danny Hustle
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That's right Johnny, any 10 year old can do it with 20 years experience. Smile

Best,

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Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2007-03-31 01:41, johnnymystic wrote:
All it takes is balls and determination...and 20 years experience!!!

johnny

http://www.myspace.com/chris_robertson

And you don't need cups. Just balls. And experience.
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johnnymystic
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That's why I got several kids Bill...
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux
<BR>I never inhale Smile
<BR>I can put a field dress on a deer
jimmy talksalot
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David blain and kris angel are tv magicians.

cyril is an internet magician.

gazzo, cellini, and nick nicholis are street performers or street magicians.

the dorks who go out and do "guerilla style" are pretending to be blain angel cyril superheroes...not street magicians. there doing purely for their own egos.

I heard that blain says that he learned from a real street performer I can't remember I think it was in his book and shows a pic of the guy I think.

anyway blain is a tv magician doing magic on the street FOR TELEVISION and a pay check.

he is not a street magician doing magic on the street for the street and tips in a hat.

when the street becomes a "set" it loses its reality as a street.

when a kid goes out and shows a magic trick for some one on the street just because.

he is not a street magician/performer he is a kid showing a magic trick on the street just because.

he's playing a transparent role as a magician...but the people know.

we're talking about professionalism not hobbiest day dreams.

the pro should come first and the hobbiest should listen and wish they could be pro or shut up and go to work and be a pro like blain, angel, gazzo, or nick nicholis.

But this guerilla thing is just like role playing lala.

Sorry, but this is our lifes work.

and I'm sick of people mocking it.
Stevethomas
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Jimmy,

You did NOT say stupid things, you spoke your mind, didn't violate Café rules and you told the truth. I've seen you work, in person, and you do the art justice. You perform with character and personality, and that's why people enjoy watching you work.

Steve
ed rhodes
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I agree with Stevethomas (the man with no last name!)

You spoke your mind. I am <not> a busker, I've gone out very few times, I have nothing but respect for people who can go out every day and actually make a living (or at least a good suplimental income) off of this.

And hey! You're "jimmy talksalot," are we supposed to expect simple one word posts from you? I don't think so! Smile
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Paddy
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Jimmy, what you said is nothing but the truth. I have never found the truth to be stupid. You expressed exactly what we feel when we see some little kid who thinks a scotch and soda makes him a "magician" so he has to run out and bug people to watch him.

Keep up the honesty

Peter
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The Mighty Fool
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To Jimmy.

Yes, you spoke your mind...which is probably why most of your posts are so small.

KIDDING!! I'M KIDDING!!

But, in response: If by saying we should "go pro or shut up", your implying that only proffesionals are true magicians? I'll bet there are amatures out there with more talent than you, me and Jenkins Minor combined. And anyway, the term 'professional' is a bit hard to define when it comes to busking,(and totaly non-existant in street-magic) because buskers aren't paid by the city or the venue, they get tips from impressed / amused passersby. so if 'professional' is taken to mean "Good enough that you get paid for it" then I'm afraid I know several street-mages who qualify as pros, including moi.

Like I said in an earlier post, there is a lot of bitterness from buskers, many of whom feel that their monopoly as street-performers has been usurped, and the television antics of Blaine & Angel have made street-magic a lot harder to dismiss / ignore. I'll admit that having a camera crew around you sort of takes away from the street-magic aspect, but you gotta hand it to Cyril.....his cameras are usually hidden!
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Bill Palmer
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Jimmy:

What you said in that burst of posts was right to the point. The only thing I would disagree with is your statement that Cyril is an internet magician. While he is best known from his Youtube clips over here, in Japan, he is basically worshipped as a television god.

For a long time, certain biggies in the various magic magazines gave him a lot more credit for what he is doing than (IMHO) he deserves. In reality, he is doing the same thing that Blaine and Angel have done. He's got a set, which may be in a restaurant, an open market, or even the Tokyo aquarium. He may take over a disco for an evening. But everything he does is worked out tighter than a gnat's posterior.

My chief beef with David Blaine has nothing to do with his material. It has to do with his usurpation of the term "Street Magic." It used to be that when the public heard the term "street magician," they knew that it meant a busker. Now, for the most part, it's a pest with a deck of cards or a scotch and soda. And don't forget the fire wallet and the attitude!
"The Swatter"

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JamesTong
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Jimmy:

You have stated your points that are also factual and we respect that. Those are great points. You have done nothing wrong.
SeaDawg
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I think Simon Lovell credits Aronson with the following quote: " I don't do magic , I help people experience magic".

It is in the fine presentation of the subtleties of our craft that we make more converts.... Assaulting people with a deck of cards and an in your face attitude doesn't seem congruent with our rich heritage.
Crazy people take the psycho-path thru the forest...
jimmy talksalot
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Mighty Fool,

a pro is a guy who does his lifes work not a "real job"

any monkey can be good enough to get paid for magic, that's my point, if the hobbiest is so good why don't he do his lifes work instead of a "real job"?

this isn't about skill, its about character.

further, why in gads name would he think to speak as an authority on the profession when he never had the guts to go to work full time.

sorry but he's a coward, failure, or simply not a magician/entertainer.

he's a thinker when its convient for him. but not real. he's just as fake as the gaff.

input is great, but misinformation confuses beginners and causes them to make the same mistakes and breeds more discouragement and defeatism....you know what a hobbiest is.

if the hobbiest is gonna give input then let the people know your an amature.

my concern is for the beginner, for the potential blain,cyril,cellini,gazzo.

hobbiests who say you can't make a living at what we do are not only negative their wrong and dangerous to beginners and young people.

hobbiests who unwittingly misinform are costing our art, time and money.

that's my point.

as far as bitterness twards these guys who just randomly stop people to do magic for nothing but their own egos......i have no thoughts or emotions on it,

hmmm

it just seems void in the bigger scheme of things...boring maybe, I dunno, uh, good luck with that.

I wish it was potent enough to be bitter about, I love greatness...saddly it is not. I've seen much of it first hand unfortunatly most of the time very painful to watch. but I'm always hoping.

this is really how I feel in my heart, sorry.

but at the end of the day I hope you made the people smile. I hope it wasn't completely just about you.

by the by, buskers do more then work the street they go indoors also and pick up gigs just like all the other pros.
Starry
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Quote:
On 2007-08-16 20:37, Paddy wrote:
...see some little kid who thinks a scotch and soda makes him a "magician"...

Peter

I've been drinking "scotch and soda" for years. Is that why I think I'm a "magician?" I can now understand why kids shouldn't be drinking, especially if it makes them delusional.

-- Ace
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marty.sasaki
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Just attended a John Carney lecture. One of his favorite effects was originated by Ramsey. Ransey was from the UK and ran a grocery store, but is considered by many to have been one of the best magicians around.

So, no problem being an amateur. Do what you can do with the time you have available. No need to conform to someone else's opinion about what it takes to be a magician.
Marty Sasaki
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jimmy talksalot
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Marty.sasaki's

"Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind."

this is brillant!


the great thing about the hobbists is the unusual ideas they bring to magic. some times the pro's get so wrapped up in what "they know will work" in the venue they get trapped in the box. and the art suffers.

so hobbiests brings fresh ideas for the hobbiest and pro alike. I understand this.

the hobbiest also spends their hard earned money they made at their "real job" and that helps the art....i understand this and all the other wonderfull things they bring to our art. and more I'm sure I'll learn about as time goes on.

I hope that I have not givin the impression that hobbiest's are not magician's and have no value because I do not feel this way at all!

I just don't think that amatuers should be teaching how to be a pro. I think a pro or retired pro should be teaching how to be a pro.

also I am baffled when I see a hobbiest with extreme talent that took hours of teadious practice and years of study and why in the name of all that is, would they go and do a real job. if they spent that much time on it shouldn't they be paid for it?

I know that einstein had mentioned he wished he would have been a shoe maker when they dropped the bomb, but the fact is he never was shoe maker, because it would've been a waste. and a lack of obligation to community.

I'm not trying to force any one to conform to my opinions of what a real magician is, but I have a question;

if you call yourself a magician wouldn't your lifes work be magic?

Posted: Oct 3, 2007 2:49pm
I think art is expression, further if done properly it is the expression of a community. and I think it is our obligation as artists to try and do the best job we can to express ourselves. and think I in the u.s. street performer's scene we are lacking in the quantity of street performers and the quality that a nation with the reputation we have in the world should have.

when I have traveled around I was amazed at what the world was offering in street entertainment...then I came home and reality hit me in the face.

what was the difference? they had commitment to thier art as an expression of their nation.

ironically we Americans are known for our gumption, so what happened here? as entertainers we lost faith in our trade.
TheAmbitiousCard
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What happened?
video games, TV, ...

just a hunch.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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FunTimeAl
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I think it's the need to have a college degree and the looming, communal thought that you can't be anything other than a low wage worker bee without one.

It depresses me to no end that technical high-schools, which teach valuable trades are looked on as "the easy way out" only to be attended by near-drop outs. Technical/Trade based high schools should be viewed on or above college prep schools.

What percent of college grads work in their college major field?

This may seem like a tangental rant, but it's not. Trades are looked down upon. Construction trades especially. I made it to the top of the food chain in custom cabinet work in my city over the period of years and I was still treated like a factory worker by my boss and customers.

Trades, whether magical or otherwise, don't get the same respect in our nation as worker bees. It's the suburban, commuting, "keepin' up with the Jones's" mentality...at least in the cities. I'm a city boy.

From my days in the Marines, I know there are different, way different, parts of the US. As a scout/sniper I was in a platoon mostly full of country boys. Perhaps the towns they were from thought differently of tradesmen. I've never lived in the country, so I can't speak for that life.

I think that Europe, with it's public transportation and small town feel somehow allows for the butcher, baker and candlestick maker more. People aren't commuting as much (in my romantic imagination) over there. There are people working in the same community that they live in and filling all the jobs that that particular community needs.

In my suburb, we commute. We go to jobs elsewhere. I don't know a butcher, or any other tradesman on my street. I know salesmen, computer gurus, other teachers like me and managers. A trademan, especially a specialized one, would be looked at with a great deal of scrutiny. It's sad, suburbia.

Though my perceptions may sound ideologic, I must add that I've lived outside the US for years before and have seen much of this earth through my travels both in the Marines and the Peace Corps. It's just one man's observations, but I base them on experience rather than speculation.

I respect a person that learns a trade. Way more than one who pays their money and gets a college degree that won't get them a job in their field. Seriously, how many college grads does that cover? Half? More?!?!
marty.sasaki
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It goes beyond the performer, I think.

Americans have a very simple criteria for success. It's about making money or of gathering power, or being associated with money or power. The symbols for success are more important than artful expression. An artist's success is measured by his/her patrons and the money they give them over the aesthetics of the artist's work. Sometimes the aethestics match the noteriety of the artist, but it isn't the rule.

Americans aren't interested in supporting the arts. Americans are willing to pay money for certain forms of entertainment, and not others. Many international performers would not survive if they relied only on the American audience.

I think you can be an artist and have a "real job". It may actually be easier, as long as the "real job" doesn't consume you. I'm not sure if most people can live their lives this way, we've been conditioned to make our careers the most important part of our lives.

Suppose you have a good paying job that gives you the disposable income to pursue magic after work and on the weekends. It might very well be the case that not needing to make money doing magic will allow you to pursue less popular but more artistically rewarding effects and routines.

The tendancy is to do things similar to what is successful. So you end up with a lot of folks doing the magic of Cris Angel or David Blaine rather than looking for their own style of magic or otherwise extending and expanding the art.

Just a thought, from an unqualified amateur.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA

Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
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