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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Cups & Balls material preference. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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KirkG
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With all due respect to Bill and Bish,

This was a thread about materials, not presentation. I don't think there is a pro alive who would argue that presentation was not number 1. So don't hijack the thread with side issues.

As to materials used, I expressed a preference for a certain type of cup and why.

As it relates to presentation, you have all in previous posts acknowledged the improvement of handling and therefore confidence and therefore presentation of routines already known by the performers. Appearance is also a part of presentation, and unless your personality demands cheap and tawdry props, your audience will appreciate items of quality just for themselves, before they begin to appreciate the rest of your presentation.

Kirk G.
Bob Johnston
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KirkG:
Thank you for your cogent thought regarding the thread.

All points well taken.
Bob
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2005-01-16 20:29, tabman wrote:
When I was a kid I had a set of Adams cups. This was around 1953. They were yellow plastic and came with three balls in a nice cardboard box. Cost - $1.00 at Garrisons Fun Shop in Washington, DC. I had a lot of fun with them.

I'm wondering if anyone ever made a set of cups in bakelite??? It's that brown plastic stuff they used to make radio cases out of in the mid 20th century???

-=tabman



Yes, I have an early set by Adams that was made of bakelite.

Quote:
On 2005-01-14 13:56, KirkG wrote:
If you can't afford the Silver Sherwood set, copper is the way to go. I prefer mine tarnished. I agree the focus should be on the balls, not the cups. Kirk G


Kirk:

You brought up the focus of the trick, not I.
"The Swatter"

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tabman
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Quote:
On 2005-01-16 23:03, Bill Palmer revealed: Yes, I have an early set by Adams that was made of bakelite.


Thanks Bill. I will check the cups and balls museum for them!!

All the best,

-=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

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Bill Palmer
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They are on the "Magic Set Cups" page -- fifth set from the top.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Davidicus
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...I should also mention wooden cups have a great feel to them. Not suitable for busking or heavy work. However when the perfect situation arises...
tabman
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Quote:
On 2005-01-17 08:36, David J. Greene wrote: ...I should also mention wooden cups have a great feel to them.


I agree with you David. Wood is such a basic material and has been "worked" almost since the beginning of time. Metal, of course, came along later and the working aspects a little more advanced because of the tools and technology (fire) used to make stuff from it. Wood has connection to the distant past much more than metal ever will.

-=caveman tabman

Quote:

Bill Palmer reveals: They are on the "Magic Set Cups" page -- fifth set from the top.



Thank you kind sir!!! I'm heading over there right now. Can't wait to see 'em!!

-=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

http://Sefalaljia.com
KirkG
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Bill,

You are right, but that point of focus related directly to the material of the cups and it's impact on it. It is no big deal, let's not argue about it. Kirk G
Mr. Muggle
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I've read mention about heavy copper in this thread. If a manufacturer offer's the same style of cup in copper, brass, and stainless- is copper always heavier? What about long term durability?

I like my cups to be as heavy as possible, yet no larger than the Sherwood cups. With all the new styles out there too many cups are starting to look like thermos tops. IMO they detract from the illusion of the final loads, instead of add to it.

MM
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Bill Palmer
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Copper is not always heavier. It all depends on the gauge of the metal. For example, the Harries Bosco Cups are not actually very heavy. The Phoenix Cups, although smaller, are heavier.

And the MM cups in brass are only 1/10 of an ounce lighter than their copper counterparts from Penguin.
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Mr. Muggle
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Im getting into the habbit of saying it, but Thanks Bill. I can see that having so many cups can give you specific detail's and insight that most would never think of, let along consider.

MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
KirkG
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Bill,

That is an excellent point. With the exception of the Johnson cups, I have found all the brass cups I have been able to handle have been lighter than the copper. This just goes to show you should handle the cups yourself before buying them, and take a knowledgeble friend along with you to judge the weight if you are just beginning.

Kirk G
Yfirum
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What do you think about Cellinis cups? does anyone own them?
They're kinda pricey, especially the silver ones (900 Swiss Francs = about 1200 USD)
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sarcophilus
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I have been looking at the Copper Cellini cups my self. They are beautiful. I have heard they stack a little loose but other than that they are great.
Bill Palmer
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I'll answer two concerns at once.

Re: Copper vs. Brass -- Brass has a tendency to "ring" better than copper. I'm not sure why. It could be due to the hardness of the metal. Paul Gertner purchased a set of VanDokkum Jumbo Brass cups at the IBM Convention in Cleveland. They ring like a bell, when he does his routine with the ball bearings. This is one of the cases where I would prefer brass over copper. But we are talking about a really big chunk of brass here.

There are some Rings and Things Monti cups that were made during the 1970's that look like brass. They aren't. They are "Church Bronze." This is a yellow bronze alloy. They ring quite well. Mine were authenticated by Mike Brazill last week.

Now, regarding the Cellini Cups. They are fine for everything except the three ball display on top of the cups. The bottom is too small for that. If you don't do this display, then you won't have any problems.

They will take a baseball, but barely.
"The Swatter"

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mcmc
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I have a question about a set of wood cups my friend got me (from the Castle, I think). They have a nice little kicker cup, that is a closed cup that comes apart at the middle bead (like an easter egg). It didn't come with any instructions, and though I figure you could ring it in near the end, I was wondering if anyone had ever come across a routine for these? And with the kcker cup being separable like that, I was guessing that you could put something in it, but do you think that'd be a weird ending?

The wood cups look nice, pretty but understated. The only thing is that they're light as heck and they don't roll. It's also hard to get a ball to sit on them as the top is almost level.
Bill Palmer
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These were made by Uday, I believe. They are nice enough cups. Shigeo Tagaki had a one cup and ball routine that used the kicker cup only. He ended up with a ball inside the solid cup.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
mcmc
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Ah, thank you for the info, Bill! I will have to hunt Mr. Tagaki down now.

maurice
Dave V
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Mcmc,
I have a set of wooden cups, bought in the 80's from Stevens Magic. They too have a fourth "kicker" cup, but this one is all one piece. Again, no instructions came with it but I bought it around the time that Paul Harris published his "Beenie Weenie" routine, as well as Jos Bema in his 1983 "Tommy Wonder Entertains" book. Both were developing complete routines around using a solid cup (actually, unopened food cans).

I'll post a picture of them on my website in the "Photo Gallery" section.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
mcmc
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Dave-

Ah, very interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to track those materials down too now...

maurice
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