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cloneman Elite user 474 Posts 
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[quote]On 2004-11-15 19:23, salsa_dancer wrote:
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I'm afraid you are wrong. That's the point of the first sale doctrine. But as we march towards a licensed-based IP economy, I have no doubt that in the near future books will be licensed and not bought, concepts like "fair use" will go out the window, and the public domain will dwindle until it protects nothing more than a single fly-specked calendar filed with scenic pictures of Akron, Ohio.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5931 Posts
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what would you call ... Not enough information to tell but this is a topic about performance rights as they do or do not pertain to teaching media. I apologise. I guess in your eyes you are not unethical, just indecent... or promoting indecency. My bad. |
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meilechl Special user 657 Posts
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On 2004-11-16 16:18, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Quote:
On 2004-11-15 10:33, Verno Inferno wrote: This was the original question: Quote:
Ethics on magic says that if you want to perform something, you should own a book, lecture note, dvd or something like that with the tricks on, or you should not perform it. |
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meilechl Special user 657 Posts
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On 2004-11-16 18:23, Tom Cutts wrote: Don't worry. Your excuse isn't really that important or interesting. It's just that a proverbial pot calling the kettle black comes to mind. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On 2004-11-13 11:37, Samuel wrote: My feeling is that it really helps to have the source, and it benefits the author and publisher if you do. It's usually a small price to pay for a trick. And again, this has to do with PERFORMING=GETTING PAID ie business stuff, so it's also probably tax deductable as a reference. What is this with high horse accusations. We are just discussing what makes good, better and best practice. Nobody is saying SHOULD or HAS TO. All we are investigating is what can we do to make this a better place.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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cloneman Elite user 474 Posts
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On 2004-11-16 19:56, Jonathan Townsend I second that. This is a forum - a place for discussion and, when appropriate, polite argumentation. By the way, that's "argument" as in: premise/warrant/conclusion/refutation as opposed to a pejorative diatribe.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5931 Posts
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The latest gaming casino just opened up in Indiana from an obscure tribe which by the way is also into Dyanetics.
They call themselves the Peoria Dya-Tribe. :lol: |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Are they clear about the ethics of pandering to us PCs?
I always wondered who audits the auditors. Humans are Thetans and the rest of the PCs are just delusions?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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debaser Special user Boulder 557 Posts
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I have to say that I have not been on the site for a number of months I believe and I come back to find the same threads that will never be resolved yet are about relatively specific issues.
Personally If performing magic you don't own is your biggest issue, your probably famous. My question is! what is so lofty about performing someone else's material because you paid $20 for it. Personally this is no great ideal to live up to. Truth be told most of the good stuff that is out there in books is out there not because performers want you doing there material but rather they want to claim ownership of said routines. My point is that there are bigger issues than not owning a magic dvd and performing an effect that is on it. If I was a performer I would rather have someone steal my video or book and take time learning the effect and adding to it, than have someone pay for it and perform it poorly. Matt |
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chrisrkline Special user Little Rock 965 Posts
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Yes and I would rather have someone buy it and perform it well than to steal it and perform it poorly. But that is not the point of this topic. Maybe, it people show respect at all levels of magic, including when the acquisition occurs, then they will find that they are also performing better.
Chris
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cloneman Elite user 474 Posts
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Debaser raises an interesting point that this forum does tend to go around in circles regarding then issue of performance and other IP rights in magic publications (books, dvds, etc.). Part of the reason for this is that it is an unresolved area, ripe with perceived unfairness and unethical behavior. If people think something is wrong, they are going to want to try and find a solution.
Another reason for this never-ending discussion is that, for many magicians, given the limited number of public venues for magic, attribution and recognition from other magicians is one of few ways a magician can feel as if he or she has contributed something to the art. IMHO if there were more magic shows -- on television, in the theaters, magic clubs – magicians would 1) be able to more realistically look to paid performances for revenue, 2) gain recognition from the public, which in turn would create an economic demand for their publications, and 3) allow a magician’s work to survive the sting of legal copying (however unethical that copying may be). Without more public venues, or interest, in magic, magicians are unfortunately left to fight amongst themselves for recognition. Consequently, every borrowing is highly scrutinized and debated, the law is misconstrued, anyone who is inspired by another magician is subject to labels of being unethical, and magicians spend more time on the forum complaining than they do performing in front of the public. The key, my friends, is not to fight each other, but to find and/or create new venues for our art!
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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On 2004-11-17 09:17, cloneman wrote:...The key, my friends, is not to fight each other, but to find and/or create new venues for our art! :) Agreed. Whether it was fixing a co-workers inspection stamp by "magic" or showing Dai Vernon a trick so he could see some of his (and his buddy JR's) ideas in use today, it's all about magic for the audience. From changing condiment packets to a torn and restored napkin, magic has its place among people. The academia has its own issues. There are really very few who contribute NEW things to our craft. Some find inspiration in the hardware store. Some find inspiration in literature and the arts. Unless you really want to take on the scholarly burden of active reading and questioning the works, better to leave the "look what I invented" to those who would know if something were novel or a significant contribution to our craft. I tend to leave that stuff to some of my mentors like Wesley James, Sol Stone, Ken Krenzel, Jon Rachabaumer, Karl Fulves, Sam Schwartz, Alex Elmsley... When I discover something that seems useful I show it to them and ask if this has been tried before, and if so, how did it work out. If I have prop stuff to try out, I ask James Riser and Pete Biro. It's usually better to ask about a problem before trying to solve it on your own anyway. Not that many new problems in magic. 
Not sure which is more satisfying, being told something is new, or finding out some guy named Hofzinser did it first. 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Posted: Nov 16, 2004 10:49 pm 
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