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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-03 22:10, johnpert wrote: If people shouldn't be playing with fire, then niether should you! Most children's magicians are not performing with an air of "adult expert"; the kids will pick up on that. Lots of lawyers out there too. I have never used fire in a childrens show, and never will. |
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Hiya, Magi:
Worst feedback I ever got was earlier this year when I did my first kidshow -- I lit a match. Nobody said anything, but the response card made it clear that I appeared to performing without my brain. First, last, and ONLY time fire was used in my shows. Leland |
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Rupert Bair Inner circle ? 2181 Posts |
<<<<There was a house that was gutted in Northern England (Stockport) by 'magic relighting candles' that were not extinguished properly. Thankfully an entertainer was not involved>>>>
Their was a fire at the factory that makes them, hehe. Fire is not needed, I have never had anyone say I want to the see fire again rather than I want to see the rabbit again. Why use fire when I can a bigger reaction from, my silver scepter for instance, also its costly rebuying lighter fluid, lighters and flash products all the time. Matt |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2477 Posts |
"in fact many times the kids come up to me after the show and want to see the fire book again."
And in a day or two they're going to be hiding out in the back yard with an old book and a can of paint thinner. "I always tell them they must never try to copy this..." So do their parents. Visit a pediatric burn ward and ask a nurse how many children she's seen who have been burned because they played with fire. Just because the magic shop sells it doesn't make it a good idea for children. |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
I for one don't do anything with fire for kids anymore. I once did and decided to stop because kids now days are so much about "do what he did" that I don't want to set a bad example. My advice is to stay away from fire at a kids show.
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I strongly agree that I never use fire in any kids show. It is just my own opinion, but kids like to mimic anything they see. Not only that but I am a magician and so they also feel that fire is magical and can't possibly hurt them because it did not hurt the magician.
It also allows for more chances of mistakes or mishaps that I just like to try and avoid all together, I feel myn shows and my magic do not lack anything from NOT using the fire and it makes it so much easier for set up and break down. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Amazing Magic Co Inner circle 1715 Posts |
I aprpeciate this dialogue. I have always used a fire wallet and flash paper with a chick pan as part of my show. While I remain undecided, I hear and respect the considerations presented. While these routines have always been well received, I certainly don't want to send the wrong message to kids. In the meantime, I will check my liability insurance and be more diligent in discussing with parents when booking a show.
Dan. |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Dan,
That is great that at least you are open minded about it and carry liability insurance and will discuss it with the parents. I just have found that my shows are not any weaker without fire and I feel safer knowing that I am not giving the wrong impression to the children. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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kenscott Inner circle 1869 Posts |
How I don't do fire tricks in my birthday show ( I used to use McBrideS candle and it played well) I am not sure that kids MIMIC everything we do.
Fire or anything that could cause damage to someones carpet I don't use anymore. For ex. my rabbit stays inside a hat now when I am holding him. I don't want him to spoil the carpet. I also use to let kids draw on a board that I use with a marker. One the kids dropped the marker on the carpet and there was a big black spot that was very hard to get up. But again I am not sold on the fact that kids mimic us. If you think about it a cake is placed in front of the birthday child and in that cake are several lite candles. They then get over the cake of lite candles and blow them out. I think kids can MIMIC a lot of better things than us such as there TV or there game cubes. Just my 2 cents. Ken |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Ken,
I agrtee with you to an extent and I totally respect you and your shows and opinion. Love ya man. lol However, I once performed an effect using fickle fire and candles and fire and such early in my career amd afterwards I saw kids trying to mimic the exact same thing they saw me doing. It really scared me to an extent that it made me realize that too the kids what I am doing is magic so it can not possibly hurt or harm them. If the magician can do it.. why can't I. I totally understand where your coming from, but after seeing this happen to me, I just decided that my shows were JUST as powerful without the use of fire. It made me feel better knowing a danger element for kids was taken out of my show. It was just my opinion and I guess we all have to take and think about what works best for him or her. We often forget just how much power we really do have over children who watch us. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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RonCalhoun Special user Independence, KY USA 599 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-03 08:05, Ste wrote: NO. I am a former firefighter. I have far too much respect for the destructive power of fire to use it in a children's show.
Founder Heroin Doesn't Care. Find us on https://www.facebook.com/heroindoesntcare
www.heroindoesntcare.com |
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spkrosky New user 89 Posts |
Often I will use a dove pan routine with a birthday show as a cooking routine. So I have the chance to explain that we only cook when parents are supervising. I have never had a problem or complaint. Granted, the fire goes for only about 2 seconds. But a couple times I tried "imaginary fire". The act suffered -- I dare say the trick sucked. Now on the other hand, I don't think something like appearing candles would be necessary. I guess you just need to be alert and use your brain.
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Im in a very competitive market and sometimes one effect can set you apart from the competition.
Ken mentioned the carpet and that is a valid concern. "My fire safety program uses the hot book and and fire craker routine and others. The key is not to make it playful. No matches, or stuff easily and obviously lite from matches. Yes, to flash paper. " Very good point. For smokers, do they go hide when lighting a cigarette so kids will not see them with a lighter or matches? Kids never see you light a fire book or fire wallet, they only see "magic" fire. The fire may not even be real fire like some of our magic is not real magic:) Of course there is a risk like balloons are. Just get out of there without setting the curtains on fire please.
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
IMHO you have to be nuts to use fire in a children's show. But it's just my HO.
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
I respect that RJE and understand your point. I'm in agreement on certain fire effects but respectively disagree on the smaller effects (with utmost safety adherance of course).
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
I do the Wiz-Kote and I use a small amount of flash paper and smoke powder (SMALL AMOUNT!) just to give it the effect of burnt sneaker.
Much of my life was involved in the Fire Service, much has been said here about smokers, lighting cake candles, destructive power of fire, fire in homes, etc. Fire is powerful and can be magical, if it is keep in that perspective. Again, if a fire appears without any means of ignition (ie. fire book) then it is OK. IMHO. One of the most dangerous fire hazards are candles. Just look at the fire stats on that. Most of the children deaths I encounter had to do with either candles or matches (excluding smokers falling asleep) I don't do candles for kids (Requires lighting them with a match) I vanish a Happy Birthday silk in a Dove pan and appear a sponge cake, no fire. (The happy birthday silk appears in-between two silks aka: 20th century silks method) I do the Birthday on a silk cake effect in a change bag put candles in it and use d'lites for fire and appear a birthday cake silk with lit candles. (no fire) There are only 45 minutes for a Magical Birthday Party and 10,000 hours of good magic that doesn't involve fire. There REALLY isn't a need to use it.
Dennis Michael
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Daniel Faith Inner circle Neenah, Wisconsin 1526 Posts |
I use fire with my double load rabbit pan if the parents don't have a problem with it.
Otherwise I use flash cotton with a finger flasher. They never see the finger flasher. McBrides Candle works well too as it ignites mysteriously. I used to use a flaming head chest a long time ago. But I felt that was too much.
Daniel Faith
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Decomposed Eternal Order High Desert 12059 Posts |
Dittos on what Den said about candles. We just had a house go up last night because of one being tipped over.
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Wolflock Inner circle South Africa 2257 Posts |
I use fire in torch to rose and with my dovepan routine. I also explain to the children that fire is dangerous and they should not try to do the same things that I do as I am a professional Moron, er, Magician.
Regards Wolflock
Wolflock
Pro Magician & Escapologist Member of JMC (Johannesburg Magic Circle) South Africa |
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
My two main concerns about using fire in a children's show are:
1. Children will imitate what they see. How many kids have watched a magic show and then went around after imitating something they saw???? Bunches of them in my experience. How would you feel if you found out afterward that one of the members of your audience was seriously hurt or worse because of something they saw you do? These are kids afterall and their judgement is not based on the same life experiences of the adult (which often enough gets in trouble anyway!) 2. My liability insurance will not allow me to use any fire in any of my performances, children's or adults' It is void if I do. It is difficult enough to get liability insurance here in Canada (the IBM's is not internationally offered ((so much for the I part of IBM, ok sorry about the whine)) ). As it is I pay over $1000.00 a year in premiums. I couldn't imagine what it would cost if I told them I was going to use flash paper for a 6 year old's b'day party. But again, it's just my take on things. If you feel comfortable doin' it, then go ahead and do it. I'd just disagree is all. Cheers all, Rob |
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