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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Joseph brings up a good point, Watch and learn and even network with other performers not just fellow magicians. I often get the chance to meet a lot of great entertainers at the festivals I work each year. I watch, learn and talk with each of them if I can get the chance.
Some are not so great and some are fantastic, but I learn from each and every one. Networking can be a powerful thing. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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spatrick Special user Tom Sawyer let me whitewash these 517 Posts |
For me performing in an area that is only an hour and a half from NYC allows me the opportunity to put into practice some of the things that David Kaye is so successful with. I get allot of transplant kids. (those whose parents live in PA and commute to NYC to work). These kids are a special breed and if not handled correctly can walk all over you.
His style might not go over in the rural areas but he does do well in situations where you have some snotty, spoiled, or arrogant children you are perofrming for. I give Silly Billy all the props in the world for being able to handle an audience like that. By the way, he did his lecture and performance in PA a few years ago and he was quite good. While it is true that most of his tricks are "off the shelf" (and he would be the first person to tell you that) what he does with those props is pretty neat. Also, his thought processes on child phsycology are thought provoking. Pick up his lecture notes sometime and you will see what I mean. S. Patrick |
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-12-12 18:04, Starrpower wrote: Maybe it was supposed to happen and it was just badly performed magician in trouble. Mac, I can see where you're coming from but I think I could happily watch another's show without feeling a great desire to emulate them. Clive, I have to ask, am I wearing ACME clone? George |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
No, it was not supposed to happen. He messed up, plain and simple. It wasn't something that got the kids all riled up, or set them up for a final payoff. Rather, they were screw-ups that made him look bad.
I'm not arguing the guy's success; and, for many of us, that's the bottom line. But to say he does "pretty neat" stuff with those props is reaching. I saw some VERY standard presentations -- and I watched his show twice! Really, I found very little original about him other than his final routine with the balloons. Please understand, I agree that was he does apparently works for his market. But the purpose of this thread was to determine how we stack up against other performers. Based on that, to assume he owns the NY market because he's a better performer is way off base. That's like saying Jessica Simpson is a success because she sings better than anyone else. But I think there is a lesson to be learned here. He DOES seem to own that market. There's a reason for that, and it doesn't seem to be his show. |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
HI,
The other thing I find is that if you are going to learn from someone then surley it makes sense to learn from people who are succesfull in your market, clearly Silly Billy has a ltd market the UK kids did not take to him and from waht I have read from others niether do large portions of the US with all the good entertainers out there that have a more universal appeal why would you bother listening to him? I have nothing against the man I am just using him as an example because I have seen him. I like to see Terry Herbert and David Ginn (mostly early ginn), I also enjoy Sammy Smith though his style is way different than mine, I like Barry Mitchels Ideas but I just thought the man was way strange when I saw his magic that Mooves me video, I watched the Duane laflin anti drugs video and I was looking for the strings! He is way too stiff for my taste, Steve taylor I find too childish. Probably the worst kidshow tape I have seen is "Dan Harlan" Packs flat or something like that. I enjoyed the Ken Scott video. Maybe this gives you some indication of my tastes Phillip |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
Hi george, if you had the jacket and hat matching those trousers yes.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
But, Clive, yellow and blue stars? Isn't that a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
As for Ginn, he's another I've been terribly unimpressed with, although I think he has some good presentation ideas. I just think he's too goofy, and the show he put out on video for pre-schoolers was horrendous. He seems to just plow throught the show, regardless of how the audience is repsonding. My vote goes to Terry Herbert, who really impressed me with his shows. He has great acting abilities. |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
The no1 fashion item for both the clone and hobbiest is the playing card tie, it makes them easy to spot at conventions.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Hey, Clive, I have several! How humiliating ... I am such a rank amateur!
One has Mickey and Minnie as the king and queen of hearts. The other has a royal flush on it. And, I got one last Christmas from a magician frined that has posters of old-time magicians on it. I wear them all when I work restaurants (although not all at the same time!) I also have one with Mickey Mouse as a magician, only he's not there -- all you see it his shoes, white gloves, and a magic wand, as if he's invisible. This was a very expensive tie! But, what does this have to do with watching other entertainers? |
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Cheshire Cat Special user Wilmslow, UK 941 Posts |
Yes spatrick! "transplant kids". We call them "fashion accessory kids" here; and we do get a few parties of them, although switching trade to more rural areas in recent years has relieved us of many of them.
Now, "Watching Other Entertainers". No, not personally, it's just something we've no desire to do. As an ex pro. pianist I can tell you the hours I wasted trying to emulate styles of others, instead of concentrating on my "own thing". I watched, and watched, and watched, - in 1977-78-79 when I was starting, but not now. :thumbsdown: |
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keeblem Inner circle Essex, UK 1167 Posts |
I quite liked Dan Harlan's tape, but I have to say the best children's entertainer video I've seen (though I haven't seen THAT many) was Ken Scott's. In my opinion it was just the right thing for a young MODERN audience.
Mark |
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Cheshire Cat Special user Wilmslow, UK 941 Posts |
What's a MODERN audience Mark?
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keeblem Inner circle Essex, UK 1167 Posts |
One that is different from a 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, etc. etc. audience.
In my opinion today's children are far different from children, say, in the 1970s. I don't wish to mention names, but I watched a video of someone who frequents this forum and it just struck me as "old fashioned" Don't ask me to be specific about what I mean - because I probably won't be able to answer! It's exactly the same as watching a 1970s sit com for example Rent-a-ghost (to use a children's TV programme) and a "modern" sit com - for example Malcolm in the middle. I have no doubt which would be the more popular with today's younger audience. I know there are exceptions, but in my mind that is the general trend with children today. They want something lively and up-to-date, i.e. Ken Scott's Act. Mark |
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Cheshire Cat Special user Wilmslow, UK 941 Posts |
Oh yes, couldn't agree more. But I think it doesn't figure that older entertainers are not modern, or younger entertainers are not old fashioned. In fact if I may use ourselves as an example, we were way ahead of our time in the way we talked to children (on the same level), allowed them to call us by our Christian names (well, we are Christians, so nothing un-PC here!), paced our shows etc. 20 years ago. In fact we've spent a quarter of a century deriding entertainers who spent 10 minutes just making a silk handkerchief change colour with weary padded out dialogue! I've not seen any of Ken's videos, and probably never will, but he has always struck me as being on the same wavelength as us in this Café.
Tony. |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I think presentations can get old but magic in general and the way kids react is the same as it always has been. Kids are the same and react the same way to magic then as they do now.
But, you must be good at what you do and you must know a bit about what kids like and how they react to certain situations. If you can get a good understanding of these principles, they can work no matter what era you are in. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
Clive, Dam...I've the jacket upstairs . Honestly.I get the material from London because I couldn't find what I wanted over here.
Anyhow, I picked my costume for what suits me, I actually picked something that was different to everyone else, just as all my routines aren't carbon copies, so I think I can rest easily (and colourfully). Keeblem, I missed your post earlier, yes, I think it would be a lot of fun to have some mutual video swapping, you'll be second on my list for a swap (after Andy W. who has been so good as to share with me already(talented guy)). I also got Mr Harlan's dvd recently. I thought the show might've been a lot better (tricks rushed, children used as props rather than brought into the preceedings, cheesy lines over physical comedy) but a lot could be learnt from the actual tricks, technically, and also the set-up was very good. Ken's video is on my wish lish and coming to the top rather soon. As to the definition of a modern kid's entertainer that's a whole new topic, which I might just well start afresh (do a Ron). George |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Speaking of watching other entertainers, I just got the Dan Harlan "Kids' Shows" DVD (early Christmas gift).
YIKES! I sure wouldn't hire him. His constant pushing the hair out of his face was driving me crazy! There was some interesting stuff on the tape, so it wasn't wasted time on my part ... but I think this is an example of a company wanting so badly to put out a "series" of tapes (in this case, his "shows out of a briefcase", or whatever they call them) that they took someone who was definitely NOT an expert in the children's field. |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Well it just goes to show that the only person who knows you and what you can do and offer an audience is YOU yourself. No one can sell you a video and say hey do my stuff like me. You can do it like them but why would you ever want to?
I learn from others and learn tricks and effects and ideas from them. But I learned long agop that I must be willing to put forth the effort to find out who I am first, what works and what does not work for ME and then develope my own routines that fit my stage personna. Ita takes a long time to figure this out, but once you do, your magic benefits greatly from it and you begin to be more creative with your own magic. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Or, as an old college prof of mine used to say "It only shows to go you." Dr. Kim was Korean, and also used to get mixed up and say, "General thumb of rule."
Hmmm .. maybe I'll add those to my show as a bit ... think the kids'll get it? |
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DanHarlan V.I.P. 998 Posts |
Quote:
someone who was definitely NOT an expert in the children's field According to my records, from 1988 through 1994 I performed over 100 shows per year, most of them for kids (or families). I kept no records before 1988 and by 1994 I had increased my fee and moved solidly into the corporate market. Included in my files are Preschools & Elementary Schools, Christmas Parties, Company Picnics, Church Functions, Birthdays, Fundraisers, Cub Scouts, Libraries, Hospitals and even one First Communion. Not one single complaint. Many referrals and re-bookings. Clients specifically requesting me through my agent. I just don't get it. I guess my audiences were gluttons for punishment. By re-visiting that material on DVD, I thought I was providing a service. Sorry about my hair. --Harlan |
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