If you want to justify the use of the eveloppes instead of a direct selection of the gifts, you could say that you want to avoid them being influenced in their choice by the color of the wrapping paper, and use enveloppes of a similar color.

Ok, lets turn this thing upsaide down for a second.

I decided to use cards as I thought that this would make the 'forcing' procedure a little easier.

Lets say we forget the cards and just have the presents, what would you guys suggest would be a good way of doing it?

Gary

Gary,

If you can put the gifts on the table in a nine pattern (sorry I don't know how to rework the kismet force for eight offhand, although I am sure it could be done), this could be a good way to go.

/Bamba

Oh woah, way hey I have got it

eight glasses, EACH ONE FOR A SPECIFIC PARTICIPANT (name on it or something), and the ninth gift is the wine bottle! (this can be anything of course, but eight unique gifts and one for everyone, that's the way to use the kismet force here).

This way, the last gift that noone chose, is for everyone!

All parcels need different colors so they can be identified.

This, actually, in a very sweet way, rocks.

/Bamba

Yeah Bamba, I like it!!!!!

I just watched videomind. I like the idea but it isn't suitable for this.

Think about it, what would I have written on the pieces of paper? Bearing in mind the same thing is written in each one.

The only way to do it would be to have one present wrapped in a different colour paper, the specs all get the red presents, I get the blue one (for example).

This however ruins the surprise ending as the present that I received is obviously different even before being opened.

Gary

Exscuse my brain being slow, but whats the kismet force?

My mind is totally drained right now!

Gary

Actually If you have in each enveloppe a different wrapping paper color written, the effect works perfectly.

Each spectator gets a different color, but not the one that is for you.

I don't see why you would need them to have the same color written on their card????

I'm not entirely sure about the name, but it is used in a lot of old effects. Stephen Minch used it in Lovecraftain Ceremonies, Punx in an effect which I believe is called Kismet. Hopefully someone who knows where it is from can help us out with sources and maybe a full explanation in Inner thoughts (if it is public domain). It is a cleverly disguised mathematical thing. It will make more of a CUTE moment in this context than inspire people to join your cult.

;)

If you're performing for family, I'd say it is absolutely perfect.

/Bamba

Think about it

lets say I do it with 4 people.

There are 4 presents RED BLUE GREEN and YELLOW

there are 4 envelopes, what goes in them?

lets say I want to keep the RED for me. I would put in the FOUR envelopes - BLUE, GREEN, YELLOW and RED, which means someone could legitimately choose the envelope with RED in.

To cover this you may say, don't put red in any, in which case, what would replace it? another colour? No good, two people may both choose envelopes that contain the same colour!

Gary

Yup, that's broken. So why not have them be all the same?

/Bamba

Gary, I pm you with a solution as to not expose method here.

I assume you mean have all the same colour in the envelopes and all the same colour presents? In which case, what diferentiates the presents from each other?

Gary

Cheers Oxygen, look forward to it.

Here's a discussion on the kismet force

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=130

/Bamba

Thanks Bamba, will take a look.....

Any other thoughts guys?

I may perform this several times over christmas if a suitable method is devised, your help is always appreciated!

Gary

Gary,

What kind of context will you perform it in?

/Bamba

A prepared, big foam die (one number missing - one double)..the missing one is your present...
Best,
T

The first performance is this friday, in a restaurant at my works christmas dinner. There will be 8 people, 4 couples. I wanted to give each person / couple a bottle of wine or something similar as a christmas gift, quite a nice touch.

Would be good if it is presented as a game of sorts where each person gets a prize.

Gary

I just saw this thread and I couldn't help but be intriqued.

I like the PATEO idea myself. But why not modify it like this.

First, all 8 gifts have "something" inside. 7 have an ornament, Christmas candy or something like that. A Rolex watch or some similar "high dollar" item is in the last one.

Explain that you will "share" your gifts with the audience. One by one, have each person come up and you do the PATEO force with them. But each time you keep the one they leave or the one you choose. (depending on whose turn it is) At the end you still have half the presents. You can make a joke about this!

So you feel guilty about still having 4 gifts and put all the ones you have back into play. You continue and you wind up with 2. You still feel guilty and end by doing a Magician's choice with the last 2. (This will play well because you are using an entirely different method!)

Everyone opens their gift and you win the big prize!

It just seems to me that this would play really well, leave a lot of room for entertainment and not have anything that could go wrong.

Just my thoughts.

Richard

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your input.

I definitely want this to be an entertaining routine as opposed to just - choose a present, open it up and LOOK, I got a better present than you!

I'll definitely consider this option. My only worry is using PATEO or similar forces over and over might look very suspect.

Any thoughts?

Gary

It's a game you're playing, not a selection method. If you keep that thought at the front of your mind, and allow yourself to enjoy it and so on, it should be strong enough.

Richard's idea looks neat and crispy!

/Bamba

OK, firstly thanks a LOT for all your input, but frankly I'm still 'methodless'

I do quite like mavens idea from Videomind, just a shame it isn't really suited to this.

My initial idea was to perform my Final Flashback routine, which I'd still like to do. Therefore I am thinking of 'taming down' this new idea as FF gives a definitive finale.

What do you guys think? It would be nice to use the gifts, but in my mind, that would mean the effect would need to be a final piece.

Gary