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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Bad Children's Performers (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chrystal
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Inner circle
Canada/France
1552 Posts

Profile of Chrystal
Okay here's my thoughts on bad performers. They give children's magicians a bad name but ethically I wouldn't bring them up on a forum. Bad form to do so, badmouthing another performer while they are not here to defend themselves.

If however, they have made DVD's or books then opinions can be stated on the appropriate forum.

Those in my area whom I consider "bad" and that's in regards to innapropriate material being used for children not so much a performance I'm talking about. I just never recommend them or steer clear of being associated with them in any way.

I once brought up the story of being hired to perform a huge civic festival whereas the other performer whom I considered "bad" was also there. He belittled people and told sexual jokes to his audience of children..urg and then followed me around when we did walkaround magic. I just wanted to get away from him. Anyway, that too is another topic. Ha ha!

If I'm unable to do a show and a customer asks for my opinion I just respond by telling them whom I would choose and it's always someone I would highly recommend.

My two cents
Michael Baker
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Eternal Order
Near a river in the Midwest
11161 Posts

Profile of Michael Baker
Quote:
On 2004-12-21 14:08, Chrystal wrote:



Those in my area whom I consider "bad" and that's in regards to innapropriate material being used for children not so much a performance I'm talking about. I just never recommend them or steer clear of being associated with them in any way.

If I'm unable to do a show and a customer asks for my opinion I just respond by telling them whom I would choose and it's always someone I would highly recommend.



... and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why cream rises to the top.

~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company
Rob Johnston
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Inner circle
Utah
2060 Posts

Profile of Rob Johnston
If they are bad performers or if their material stinks..I am going to say so...and no one is going to control my thoughts and opinions.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
Loual4
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Special user
Montreal, Canada
670 Posts

Profile of Loual4
Quote:
On 2004-12-21 15:15, Rob Johnston wrote:
If they are bad performers or if their material stinks..I am going to say so...and no one is going to control my thoughts and opinions.


Rob, I don't think this is a question of controling your thoughts or opinions. After all, they are your own and you are certainly entitled to have them!

I Think that talking behind a persons back is not an appropriate thing to do ( unless, as previously stated in other posts, this person is marketing something and you are reviewing his product...). I personnaly know that if anybody had anyhing to say about me, I hope that they would say it directly to my face! This could become constructive criticism and help me in becoming a better entertainer!

Have a good day!
The Mighty Fool
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Inner circle
I feel like a big-top tent having
2119 Posts

Profile of The Mighty Fool
I love bad performers! They make me look GOOD!! (Now THAT'S magic!)
Everybody wants to beleive.....we just help them along.
Starrpower
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Inner circle
4070 Posts

Profile of Starrpower
I don't agree with ripping on a performer just for the sake of doing so (and a public forum is hardly "behind someone's back".) However, we are sharing ideas here; if someone says and act or product is great (thereby possibly promoting someone else to invest time and/or money pursuing this person or their materials), I think it's not only appropriate, but maybe even providing a service, to share our own viewpoint.

Chrystal makes a great point that the appropriate place for this is in the product review area. However, sometimes things don't fit into neat, tidy catagories, and they spill over into related areas.
Rob Johnston
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Utah
2060 Posts

Profile of Rob Johnston
Well, if he was around I would probably tell him to his face to. No wonder I don't have many friends.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
Emazdad
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Inner circle
Plymouth UK
1954 Posts

Profile of Emazdad
The only time I think it's wrong for anyone to critisise another in this forum is when they are doing it anonimously. This is a cowardly act in my book, if like most of us you are open about your identity then there is nothing wrong with giving an open honest opinion.

We don't all like the same things, we're individuals (I'm not) , we all have our own tastes in Music, films, Sport etc and magic and if we are giving an honest opinion on something we either like or dislike then I don't see anything wrong with it.

This forum cannot be considered 'behind someones back' as all magicians are welcome to enter the Café, where if they read a comment about themselves they can respond. 'Behind their back' would be in a private forum where said person has no access.

I notice in the Café that when people are saying they don't like part of someones video/book/act etc they obviously mention the magicians name, but when reporting on something else a magician has done, ie you know a guy who's forever letting people down, or lost he is temper and swore at the kids etc, we don't tend to name these people.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
kenscott
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1869 Posts

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Rob:

Who are you talking about?

Ken
magic4u02
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Eternal Order
Philadelphia, PA
15111 Posts

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I agree. The Café is a great place if we are all allowed to be open and honest about our opinions no matter how strong they may be one way or the other. It gets wrong when it becomes to personal of an attack and you get arguments and not deep discussions.

I know for a fact I disagree with some of the things others have said here, but that is fine and I am cool with it. I know that even know I may disagree, I have respect for these people enough to stop and listen to what they are saying and possibly even learn from time to time.

Kyle
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R2
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Well said, Kyle!
magic4u02
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Eternal Order
Philadelphia, PA
15111 Posts

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Thanks Rey rey,

We all have opinions and there is nothing wrong with them. We can learn from differences of opinion but the only thing you get out of an argument is to big inflated egos. hehe

I always enjoy a difference of opinion and I often have learned from deep discussions of this fashion. I am also the first to admit when I am wrong or if an opinion was changed because somsone else was kind enough to take the time and inform me of their beliefs.

We just have to be able to learn to listen a bit more and read what others are saying, absorb it and try and see it from their perspective.

Kyle
Kyle Peron

http://www.kylekellymagic.com

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RonCalhoun
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Independence, KY USA
597 Posts

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A few years back I'm at a magic convention talking to a friend and his lovely new bride. As we talked a well know performer came up and started talking to my friend about this really great Porn shop down the street.

His actions offended me. Why walk over and discuss such things in front of me a total stranger and this wonderful young lady?

I've seen his name posted in the Café many times and most of you would know of him.

I will not reveal his name, because of these policies:Click here for some posting guidelines...

Public Criticism

If you are tempted to criticize another person, don't do it here. This includes everything from flaming others (see Café etiquette) to spelling corrections. People are touchy; if they feel attacked, they attack back.

It's very hard to disagree with somebody in a way that lets dialogue continue. Search for non-judgmental ways of disagreeing: try saying "That doesn't work for me, because.." instead of "That's wrong."

Suppose somebody says something you feel is really dumb. Lots of times, the thing that works best is to pretend you didn't notice. Pointing out that the remark was dumb won't work, we know that; the person is just going to dig in and push back.

Arguing, saying what you think is smart instead, may not work either, no matter how nice you are, because some people take any disagreement as criticism. If you ignore the remark entirely, though, you've done the best thing you can to kill it off. If you are having a problem from another Café member, use the Report post to moderator feature, and explain your problem. A staff member will deal with it.

Quote:
On 2004-12-22 23:48, RonCalhoun wrote:
I've seen this rude persons name posted in the Café many times and most of you would know of him.

If you would like to know who it is?


Who is he? Telling the world who this rude person is would not help anyone.

The Café is a PUBLIC meeting place.

It is also Steve Brooks “private website”. Mr. brooks ask us not to post derogatory remarks about others. and he explains why.

Personal Remarks

Making derogatory remarks about others is a bad idea. Doing it behind their back is worse. Doing it in public (in The Café) is worse still. And doing it in a way that suppresses the human side of the communication, the smile or "just kidding" shrug you might have included face to face, makes it even worse. Electronic messages are the last place for any kind of uncomplimentary remark. My advice? Just don't do it.

If you want to make derogatory remarks about others please do it in the private messages.
R2
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Okay, okay everyone I will admit that you are talking about me as a bad children's performer...I am getting help for my problem though, so please stop worrying about me...I'll be just fine!
RonCalhoun
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Independence, KY USA
597 Posts

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Quote:
On 2004-12-21 16:27, Starrpower wrote:
I don't agree with ripping on a performer just for the sake of doing so (and a public forum is hardly "behind someone's back".)


Starrpower, I think when they say behind someone's back is what Emazdad means when he said “The only time I think it's wrong for anyone to criticize another in this forum is when they are doing it anonymously.”

I'm Ron Calhoun

I live in Independence, KY

I have no clue as to who you really are. That's ok; you seem like a nice person and I don't need to know that information. But, if you're going to knot someone I feel you should be brave and use your real name when you do it.
Emazdad
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Inner circle
Plymouth UK
1954 Posts

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I had a call yesterday from a lady desperate to find an entertainer for 4:30-6:30 yesterday evening. She'd been let down.

She saw a guy at a holiday camp in Lewdown, Cornwall and booked him, he the phoned and told her yesterday he wasn't coming, no excuse. He'd agreed to come all the way from Shropshire in december for 2- Hours for £165, I nearly fell off my chair, I told her that shows just how good he was because for me to go to Shropshire in December would cost someone over £500. She'd tried Me, Billy, we'd both took the emergency route and gave her numbers of others we would not normally reccomend, they were obviously busy, (it's December after all) and she even tried an agent, because the agent phoned Billy.

Although among ourselves we all a laugh (not with the lady) about the very low fee he had quoted, we all were in agreement that what this scum did is disgusting. I asked her his name she told me and if I was certain I had the name right I'd name him right now, hopefully a Café membr who knows him could teach him about professional standards. So if you live in Shropshire and know a guy who works a camp in Lewdown, cornwall it could well be this bloke..

What's probably happened is he foolishly took the booking in the summer, and then had enquiries for closer jobs and decided he didn't want to drive the 400 miles to Plymouth and back when he could make more money staying where he was. not an unheard of thing for the unprofessionals in this job to do.

I have cocked up and under quoted for work before, but I take the hit and turn up. Any booking is set in stone.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
Cheshire Cat
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Wilmslow, UK
941 Posts

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Well Shropshire is a lot nearer to Cheshire where I live, and would I have travelled to Shropshire from Cheshire for that money if that had been the case? No way.

But just to widen this to all of us. Have you not noticed in the 'Google ads' the number of children's entertainers emerging who seem prepared to go anywhere? Now some of you guys might think Britain is small geographically. Well yes it is compared to the States, just as you are compared to Russia. But travelling any distance by road can be both time consuming, extremely frustrating, and well, absolutely b****y awful. How on earth someone can be willing to travel from a County that sits next to mid Wales to South West England to do a kids party is beyond me! We've all made mistakes yes. I have travelled down to the Welsh Valleys to do a Christmas party from North West England many years ago at a Club. Could not understand a word they said (even though half Welsh myself) and was not even offered a glass of water! These days we will not even cross the City of Manchester, as which ever way you go the travelling is harder work than the entertaining!
Mike Robbins
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Elite user
Anchorage, Alaska
447 Posts

Profile of Mike Robbins
I've seen that as well. If I run a google on magicians in Anchorage, it'll list some guy from New York City first. That's over 3,000 miles away. I really wonder if spending that money really does anything for them.
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
Shakespeare
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