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Mikael Eriksson
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Scott.

I don´t know how to explain this.

$50 is what every kidmagician gets in Sweden. The ones charging more earns less, because no one hires them. I have not decided I can´t get more, I have discovered this is where the line goes. Sure I have talked to magicians that charges more, say $100 for a kidshow. Then I ask them:

-How often do you do birthday parties for kids?

They reply: -Very seldom. Hardly ever.

-Why?

-They can´t afford it.



"I'm not sure what you want from us at this point."

I want nothing. This thread started in another thread, when I said that what area you are working in HAS importance when it comes to how much you can charge. I never asked anything in this thread.

Mikael

"how does your hourly rate pro rata (750 kronor)compare to say a soliciter or accountant? and what about a school teacher ?"

They might have 100 kr per hour.

Mikael
Scott F. Guinn
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It is certainly true that what you can make varies from market to market.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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p.b.jones
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Oh boy an Accountant or soliciter over here would get £60 - 100 ($95 - 160)per hour

a teacher about £10.00 ($16.00)

The average kids show entertainer over here is normaly about accountant rate.

Phillip
Mikael Eriksson
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Quote:
On 2002-09-10 14:33, p.b.jones wrote:
Oh boy an Accountant or soliciter over here would get £60 - 100 ($95 - 160)per hour

a teacher about £10.00 ($16.00)

The average kids show entertainer over here is normaly about accountant rate.

Phillip


I think I might have made a mistake as to how much the soliciter and the accountant get per hour. I´ll check it tomorrow. it sounds incredible if they get that much. Unless soliciter and accountant mean something else than what I thought? I have a friend that is a soliciter, so I´ll ask him tomorrow.

Mikael
p.b.jones
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Hi,
an accountant here in the Uk is the person you would go to to prepare your tax for the Inland revenue. a soliciter you would see if you where needing legal help/advice.
Phillip
Drew from Spotlight
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Hi –

I may be way off base with this reply - so I’ll apologize in advance.

Being paid for being a magician is a wonderful thing. But if no one knows I have a show or is willing to invest in (pay me money) for what I offer I’ll starve.

Please don’t give your magic away (I’m not talking about charity for a good cause – you should always give back to the community). Charge what you’re worth and what you honestly need to earn a living and a profit.

The only way to do this, besides having a good show, is by marketing yourself to your clients properly and to prove in the client’s mind that your show is valuable.

You can raise your current show price, and by just making a few minor adjustments in your presentation, you can create a world of value for your client. That’s what they pay for. What’s in it for them?

Please remember this formula: World of value for client = higher price off show for you.

For great resources to do this please buy a copy of Michael Ammar’s Cassette “Negotiating Higher Performance Fees” (the best $15 American you’ll ever spend) and a copy of Roger Dawson’s “The Secrets of Power Negotiating” (in cassette or book form)

My life changed when I learned how to increase the value in what I already offer and the proper way to present it to a client. Believe me. No matter your personal circumstances or current business climate by knowing how to help and develop your clients along your fees can only increase. And they’ll be happy to pay it.
Mikael Eriksson
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Ok, I have found out that a soliciter have about 1160 kronor per hour.

Mikael

Quote:
On 2002-09-10 19:36, Drew from Spotlight wrote:
For great resources to do this please buy a copy of Michael Ammar’s Cassette “Negotiating Higher Performance Fees”


It´s very interesting that you mention one of the materials I was thinking about when I wrote that american materials don´t work in Sweden. The tape was next to worthless.

Mikael
Drew from Spotlight
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Quote 1:
On 2002-09-10 19:36, Drew from Spotlight wrote: For great resources to do this please buy a copy of Michael Ammar’s Cassette “Negotiating Higher Performance Fees”

Quote 2:
It’s very interesting that you mention one of the materials I was thinking about when I wrote that American materials don’t work in Sweden. The tape was next to worthless. Mikael

Mikael,

I’m sorry you feel that way. What part of the materials do you find useless? The principles and techniques that these tapes are based on are from universal truths. They’ll work in Sweden just as well as they’ll work in America.

That type of blanket negative thinking is like believing that my American Double Lift won’t work in Sweden. That my technique for doing a Double Lift in America is worthless in Sweden. That’s just wrong - it’ll work fine anywhere because it’s based on solid principles and technique.

I don’t seem to be getting the complete thread (the original post) so I’m assuming that it’s from someone that wants to increase their fee for a show and was wondering what the going rates are from others. Along the same lines they were wondering how a magician’s fee ranks up there with other professionals.

A magician, for what they do, should be paid in the range of any other professional service. Think about some of the many departments that are in my magic company alone broken down to it’s very basic:

1 - RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT:

Developing your act. What kind of a magician are you? Who needs your show? The researching and purchasing of props that fit into the act.

2 – HUMAN RESOURCES:

Who developed your business plan? (Don’t even say you don’t have one). Who is doing the performing? Marketing? Keeping the books? Maintenance? Who keeps your routines fresh and current? Who is the person that practices the routines?

3 – SALES AND MARKETING:

Who markets your show? Who sells the show to the clients? Who keeps your name in front of the people who can book you? Who writes the ad copy? Who prints the business cards, letters and brochures? Who does the other countless things that bring you business?

4 – ACCOUNTING AND INSURANCE:

I am not an accountant, nor do I play one on TV. Find other professionals qualified to handle your financial needs. Plan for the future but think about today.

5 – COST CONTROL:

How do you know you’re charging enough? What should you charge? (It’s not always what the other guy is doing). How do you not price yourself out of the market? How do you price yourself out of the market and have people still happy to pay you? What are you buying? Why are you buying it?

6 – STORAGE, MAINTENANCE AND UPKEEP:

Where is your act kept when you aren’t performing? If you use it it’s going to need repair or replacement eventually.

7 – TRANSPORTATION:

You have to get yourself and the act to the venue somehow.

The above is not meant to be the end all for developing your enterprise. But it is something for you to think about when asked, “How much do you charge”?

That is a partial list of things that happen in my company. If you go through that list yourself you’ll find that you are the one doing most of the work, as am I. So even a part-time magician does the work of a full time professional just to get a 45 minute birthday gig. Don’t sell yourself short

Two good general tips I learned the hard way:

1 - Please don’t do a free show just because someone says you will get some free publicity. The only free publicity you’ll get is that you’ll do a show for free.

2 - If you do a low paying show and you rely just on word of mouth advertising there is no way you can raise your fee without causing an uproar and ill will. Everyone will want the same deal you gave the other person.

As far as techniques and principle that will work for you - forget any “name authors” or popular books. Go to any library and look up Direct Sales Books, Direct Marketing Books, and any books on Business and Promotion. The authors don’t matter because the techniques and lessons are universal. They will work if you apply them. You can charge, and get, more than you currently do. You just have to want to.

Remember the first time you did a magic trick? I’ll bet it was extremely difficult. Then it got easier and easier until it was perfect. Same thing. You might not get it at first but keep trying.

Drew
Tom Trix
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Hello all fellow Magicians !
I find this tread very intresting, as a professional children entertainer, for a period of 18 years,let me tell you how much I get for doing shows in Denmark. I don`t do a lot of children birthday partys, but when they call, I ask for $.150.00. I will not move my ace for less, simply I feel it is to much work. As a member of the Danish artist union I get payd unemployed money after tax that is $.53.00 a day. To you Mikael from sweden, I don`t understand that you are willing to do children partys for $.50.00. There is also transportation expenses. Here in Denmark I do a lot of kindergardens and schools For a kindergarden show I get $.265.00 and that is for a 35 minits show and when I make school show my salary is from $.335.00 to $.400.00 depending of how many they are. Let me also tell you that it is forbidden to letting the students paying for seeing your show during school hours. The schools pay my salary.

As I and other professionals say, we calling this marked for the institutions, or low priced marked. When the matter is the commersial marked like companys and shopping centers The price is higher, minimum salary
from $.470.00 to $.600.00 top. And guys this is the honest truth.

Will like to mention, when I am from time to time are attending the meetings in the Magic Circle,here in Copenhagen,don`t belive the guys, they are full of bullshit. They talk about that they are very busy and lie to you about how much they get payd, but I am getting use to this, letting it gow into one end of my ear and out of the other one, thinking I hope they grow up some day.

All the Best !

Tom Trix
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Scott F. Guinn
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It always raises a red flag for me when someone says something doesn't work somewhere. Have you talked to every single magician in Sweden? If American marketing techniques don't work in Europe, why are there McDonald's restaurants, Coca-cola, Us Films and Levi's jeans in virtually every country in the world?

What it boils down to is this: if you make your mind up that something won't work, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It is one of the most common traits of young people to assume that because something is the way it is, it must forever be that way and can't be changed. And once they have made their minds up, there is no changing them, until they see firsthand that what you can conceive and believe, you can achieve!
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Mikael Eriksson
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Regarding Michael Ammar’s Cassette
“Negotiating Higher Performance Fees”. A few years ago a magician collegue of mine were selling some of the things he had, and I saw this tape, and I wanted to buy it from him. He actually discouraged me from buying it, because "It did not contain anything useful". I did not believe him, and I bought it. He was right. To be honest it had some interesting idea, but mostly interesting as and idea, and not something that was practcal. I tried to find my copy yesterday, but it´s nowhere to be found.

"The principles and techniques that these tapes are based on are from universal truths. They’ll work in Sweden just as well as they’ll work in America."

I see you have not spent so much time in Sweden. I have been to America twice, and I know from experience that your country doesn´t work the same way as mine. There are tricks that we perform that americans can not even have in their shows, acording to american magicians. We simply have another culture.

"That type of blanket negative thinking is like believing that my American Double Lift won’t work in Sweden"

A totally different thing. How people react to marketing and how a sleight of hand technique works can´t even be compared.

"A magician, for what they do, should be paid in the range of any other professional service."

Also women should not be beaten, and people should not be starving, yet they do...

"To you Mikael from sweden, I don`t understand that you are willing to do children partys for $.50.00...For a kindergarden show I get $.265.00 and that is for a 35 minits show and when I make school show my salary is from $.335.00 to $.400.00......companys and shopping centers The price is higher, minimum salary
from $.470.00 to $.600.00 top. "

We are not discussing Schools or kindergartens here, we are discussing only private parties.

"It always raises a red flag for me when someone says something doesn't work somewhere. Have you talked to every single magician in Sweden?"

No, this is my opinion.

"If American marketing techniques don't work in Europe, why are there McDonald's restaurants, Coca-cola, Us Films and Levi's jeans in virtually every country in the world?"

Because they use other ways of marketing, and it´s other products. Again, a totally different thing that can´t be compared.

"if you make your mind up that something won't work, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy."

If you see from experience that something does not work, do you stick with it then?

"It is one of the most common traits of young people to..."

I´m 35. I´m not one of the people you are talking about.

Lastly, Scott, if someone from another country told you they make $2000 per kidshow and then told you: " If you are perceived to be the $500 magician, that's all you'll make", and "If you believe that $500 is all you can make or all the market will bear, that's all you'll ever get!", how would you react? He believe you are underpaid or charging too little, while you are not. this is the situation I´m in now, no one seems to understand that this is the optimal solution in MY AREA. This solution generates most money in the end.

Why not tell a magician in a really poor country: -Oh, you´re only charging $5? Well, you should charge $500!

And the poor magician says: -But $500 is a years payment for my poor countrymen!

Then I suppose you would say: -If you believe that $5 is all you can make or all the market will bear, that's all you'll ever get!

Trust me when I say that in Sweden kidshow magicians do not earn as much as in the US.
And remember I´m talking about PRIVATE parties, not CORPORATIONS, COMPANIES OR SCHOOLS!

Mikael
MiNiM
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Hi,

I'd be inclined to agree with Mikael about American marketing methods not necessarily working too well in other countries.

Sure, if you throw enough money at it (a la MacDonalds, Coke , KFC, etc) you can probably sell anything. I don't see how that relates to kids party entertainers.

Michael Ammar claims to be 'world champion sleight of hand artist' on the strength of winning a SAM award some twenty odd years ago. Note he doesn't say SAM champion, or even US champion but world champion!

Awhile ago I came across a website touting another magician as the 'worlds best school show performer'! (It didn't mention how that rating was arrived at.)

This sort of thing, I've noticed, is pretty commonplace in performers (not just magicians) websites from the US.
I'm presuming that it must work - that people there reading that sort of thing must say: "Wow, he must be good then!" or they wouldn't use that approach.
But I think that if anyone tried that style here (New Zealand), the response would more likely be; "Wow, what a big head!"

So, while basic principles probably translate OK I think that a lot of US style doesn't.

Cheers,

Bill
He asked me if I liked card tricks. I said "No." He did three. (W. Somerset Maugham)
Drew from Spotlight
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I’m sorry if I sounded like I’m arguing with you. I’m not trying to.

You’re right in saying that what works for me here in America will not work for you in Sweden. I’m not going to try to change your mind or convince you that it can. You’re the only one that can find what works for you. I hope you do because you sound like you’re truly committed to your craft and just want to find a better way. I wish you luck.

“Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising”. – Mark Twain

“If you think you can, you are right. If you think you can’t, you are right”. – Henry Ford
Mikael Eriksson
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Thank you Bill for your post. Nice to see I´m not alone in my opinions!

Drew from Spotlight,

I’m sorry too, sometimes I get too involved in diskussions.

I liked the Henry Ford quotation! It was both funny and true. Even if it does not have anything to do with me in this situation. Smile

I´ll make a try to leave this thread now, since I feel I have let it affect me too much.

Mikael
p.b.jones
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Hi,
First of all I must say that I agree with what has been said about titles!
this happens over here in the UK too
Blackpool magic Comps are a typical example
"British close up Champion" Yeah if your one of the six selected to enter by Derek Lever.
Oh yes and it's a different six every year.
Personally I have no interest in comps, But I think if you are going to use a title like the above it should at least be an Open comp and several heats.

I must say I Dissagree though about the marketing views. I think that we all have the marketing stratagies that suit us/ we like/dislike, But that does no mean they will not work. I would not just go around visiting hotels in my area looking for work (cold calling) as I am not comfortable with this. However, I know several musicians that do this and it works. Most of the material on the tape was simply std methods that MR Ammar had tried to illustrate with magic examples, The solami technique, Puppy dog close, Either or close, most of the stuff on the tape will work. where ever you are, you just have to use/adapt to suit your personality
Phillip
Scott F. Guinn
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Mikael,

I'm sorry if I offended you--that was not my intent, and I apologize. Even in poor countries, there are magicians making BIG money--they work for the rich people. As I said earlier, it is true that the amount you can make varies in different markets.

Bill, I just want to set the record stright regarding Ammar. He was a gold medalist at the 1982 FISM, and won Best Sleight of Hand at the International magic awards in 1990, so he is, in fact, a World Champion, two times!

Clearly no one is changing anyone else's minds here. Mikael stated that his comments were his opinion. Mine were my opinion, as were Phillip's and everyone else's and we're just going around in circles at this point, so it's time to stop this discussion for now. Certainly Mikael knows more about the B-day party market in Sweden than those of us who don't live there.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
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