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Bascomb Grecian
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Fox is unfortunately re-airing the Magic Exposure Shows on Monday Sept. 9th.

I will be contacting my local Fox station with disapproval and I invite all magicians around the US to do the same!

It is a cheap shot to make a quick buck. It is wrong and they need to know this needs to stop.
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philipi56
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Man, will FOX ever stop?
David_Libertine
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Yes... Fox will stop.

As soon as the people stop watching and the book numbers go down for these types of shows the Fox network will drop these shows cold. The best way to fight this problem is to turn the channel. Convince everyone you know to turn the channel.

Stop worrying about Fox and petition the sponsors of these shows. Boycott the products of the advertisers who sponsor the shows. In the TV business the only thing they care about or listen to is the bottom line. If you can affect their pocketbook, they will listen to what you have to say.

Just for the record— I worked for years in the broadcast industry before quitting to pursue magic full-time.
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Paul Menzel
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What I find ironic is that Fox actually promoted the shows as a night of magic and illusions, NOT as a night of exposures. Hmmmm.
G-Diddy
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I second that. It would be more fascinating to see the best perform, rather than to see the secrets. They basically gave away everything that Blaine did in his three programs.
Ron Giesecke
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And Blaine should cop some responsibility for this— because his approach only leaves the "how" question, and has no residual entertainment value.

If all you leave is a gnawing, vacuous pang for the answer, the market will provide it no matter what kind of action. Blaine's specials are tantamount to a dare, if you ask me. I know others will disagree (and I respect that), but that's just my thought. He's not the end-all for blame here, but I do feel that, aside from whatever intrigue he may have fostered at the beginning, he also placed a latent "kick me" sign on our backs as well.

These are the same reasons James Randi chases Uri Geller and not Bill Malone.
sanskara
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I already posted this in another thread, but I'll do it here too, as well:

I just wonder if magicians have any legal recourse. It may be hard to justify suing Fox if you're a mostly amateur magician who works tables two Fridays a month at a local restaurant. But some of the manufacturers of tricks or the big Vegas acts who may use some of the expensive stage magic routines revealed in the Fox series, may have grounds for a lawsuit.

I had heard somewhere that the Pendragons were involved in litigation with Fox over a trick of theirs being showcased, but don't remember the specifics, or if it's been resolved at this time.

The problem with the Street Magic special is that they did go over many popular effects used by us. They totally revealed the workings behind the Raven, for example—Chazpro needs to nail Fox to the wall for that and the psychokinetic match routine.

Additionally, it looked like they took a standard Johnson cigarette through quarter and added a rubberband to it for the cig through coin effect. They even showed how a poor shuttle pass is performed to switch the gaff in and out. And as already mentioned, the rising card effect gimmick was revealed.

I would imagine that Blaine may also be pretty ****ed off, as they went over a good part of his repertoire, right down to the encased in ice trick. Interestingly enough, when they showed the levitation portion, they failed to credit Balducci for the initial effect—which is yet another faux paux they should be called on.

I don't know if we can stop these guys, but if anyone's a lawyer and thinks we might have grounds for suit against Fox, I say, let's get a big group together and rip 'em a new one!
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David_Libertine
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Re-read my earlier post.

Boycott any company that sponsors exposure and the exposure shows will go away. No advertising equals no program. Boycott the advertisers on your local Fox affiliates. Get all magicians to stand behind the boycott. Spread the word, affect the bottom line, and the exposure shows will *POOF* disappear.

That's how TV works.
Boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Boy: Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
philipi56
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Does FOX even know that they are damaging careers? This really bugs me a whole lot. Why won't somebody file a lawsuit against them?
Peter Marucci
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Sanskara and some others have asked: "I just wonder if magicians have any legal recourse."

In a word, no.

It boils down to a First Amendment issue; you can't silence free speech just because you don't like what the other party is saying. But once again we are making far to big a thing of this.

A chintzy exposure shouldn't hurt anyone who relies on presentation rather than props. After all, I've said it before but it's worth saying again:

Anyone who thinks that the magic is in the props should take apart a piano to find the music.
sanskara
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On the other hand, they did reveal the workings of a shuttle pass, the set-up and execution of a triple lift and a top change.

This is a problem for everyone. I personally don't do much in the way of prop or gaffed magic, my bag is straight coins and cards effects. They did hurt me, it's not just my imagination, and a boycott against Fox back in the "Married...With Children" days actually upped the ratings and did not make the show go away.

If there's no way to pull off a successful lawsuit against Fox—fine. But, if anything, people aren't making a big enough deal about this, rather than too much of one. So they didn't go after YOUR effects; if the ratings for the show are decent, you can bet they soon will.
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James Bostwick
Kard16
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Quote:
Anyone who thinks that the magic is in the props should take apart a piano to find the music.

Wow, that's a good saying (just had to tell you).
rasw
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Quote:
On 2002-09-10 01:29, Ron Giesecke wrote:
And Blaine should cop some responsibility for this— because his approach only leaves the "how" question, and has no residual entertainment value.

That's an interesting point, and as I think about it, I can agree with it.

Most people, magicians or not, know how women are sawed in half, for example. But it's still always entertaining when done well.

But if it was presented without showmanship, giving away the secret ruins the trick forever.
jecar
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Quote:
On 2002-09-10 20:24, sanskara wrote:
On the other hand, they did reveal the workings of a shuttle pass, the set-up and execution of a triple lift and a top change.

This is a problem for everyone. I personally don't do much in the way of prop or gaffed magic, my bag is straight coins and cards effects. They did hurt me, it's not just my imagination, and a boycott against Fox back in the "Married...With Children" days actually upped the ratings and did not make the show go away.

If there's no way to pull off a successful lawsuit against Fox—fine. But, if anything, people aren't making a big enough deal about this, rather than too much of one. So they didn't go after YOUR effects, if the ratings for the show are decent, you can bet they soon will.

Yep, they have shown that they are not going to stop revealing secrets. It's time for the big magic organizations to step in and do some legal wrestling with Fox and the advertisers. The large magic dealers and shops should also join in the effort to stop this. If all the magic world would unite in one effort, they could defeat this, because there are more magicians, mentalists, entertainers, store owners, distributors and hobbiests than there are watchers of "Secrets Revealed".

Jerry
Bascomb Grecian
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Fox did expose magic I make my living with. Fox also is putting magic in a gimmicky, cheap, ridiculous light and I for one am very angry. I take this very seriously and there is legal recourse.

We as magicians should bring a class-action suit on Fox.

Let me know what you think.
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x-treem
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Many, many have filed suits already and all have lost over this venture. Andre Kole is the only survivor in this battle; when he found out they were going to expose his fan illusion he was able to stop the exposure.

On the other hand, Kole and many biggies have tried and tried to stop the exposing shows altogether in court but this is WHAT THEY WANT; the more outrage we show the more Nash will hype it and the more the general public will want to see what has magicians so bent out of shape.

Best is not to watch. Especially if anyone has or knows of anyone who is part of the Neilson or a related polling service.

The more we out-cry the more they will make. Even sponsors have been approached and only one has pulled out since the beginning.
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mattneufeld
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Folks:

There is no legal recourse to sue a television network for airing magic tricks that are in books in Border's, books at the local book store, on cereal boxes in the grocery store, in sets at dozens of toy stores, demoed and explained in hundreds of magic shops, and demoed and explained at hundreds of lectures, classes and conventions!

After talking with several lawyers who are magicians, the bottom line is that this is a free country, there are First Amendment rights that are legally very strong, and there is no room for lawsuits against television networks that air these specials.

Also, despite what some folks have said, these magic shows do not draw extremely huge ratings. One reason that they are aired is that they are cheap to produce and thus easy to get back the production costs. But, again, they do not draw huge ratings.
Dr. Jakks
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Peter, I love your "Magic Props Piano Music" quote. But I do think that magicians should stop getting so upset. After all, we are almost fueling a little exposure (that may seem a bit hypocritical to those who read my post in Secret Sections) because we fight it so much! Just let it pass, it will stop.

Jakks
Thoughtreader
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I have been asked by several people on here why I have not bothered to answer this thread as it SHOULD be long dead, so here it goes:

1.) Forget it and move on! Stop posting about it on the Internet. Fox and the producers of the show know this riles the magicians and they monitor what is being posted and said in magazines and on the Internet. It gives them a good idea about how many people watch their ***ed shows and they use this when trying to sell to both advertisers as well as selling the network on buying another one.

2.) The only people that really give a *** about how magicians do these things can just as easily walk into any magic store, anywhere in the world and buy the trick (in some shops they don't even have to buy them) to know how they are done. These same people can walk into just about any public library anywhere in the world and learn how they do most of these things. The main point is that these people chose to know how they are done and so they watch it, or seek out the methods. The others just change the channel.

3.) If your technique is good, and if you are entertaining enough, lay people will not know how you do your magic. Especially when it is pure sleight of hand coupled with proper misdirection. So, instead of relying on a bunch of silly gimmicks and boxes, learn some real sleight of hand that requires work and not money to walk into a magic shop and buy the trick. It is the "instant magician" that they have hurt, not true sleight of hand artists.

4.) If your presentation is good, if you are truly entertaining your audience, they will be enjoying themselves far too much to even care about how you did it.

5.) The lay public has a very short attention span and memory. A good example of my #3 and #4 is Penn and Teller who do a clear cups and balls routine their show. Now face it, every magic set from the turn of the century has had a set and almost everyone knows the secret about it. The secret really lies in how entertaining it is. Now after Penn and Teller do this in their show, they had someone in the lobby doing a REAl cups and balls routine and they were blowing away the audience watching, despite them just learning how it was done.

My advice is to drop this topic, move on, ignore it and stop Fox and their producers from hearing any more about these ***ed shows. The less they hear, the less interest they see generated by them, the sooner they will drop it and move on to the next reality show. Magicians are the best advertising FOX has right now. So stop it already.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
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Magicbarry
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On the legal action issue, in most cases there is nothing that can be done. The first amendment is part of the reason, but more specifically, you need to look at intellectual property law.

There are three branches of intellectual property: copyright, patent, and trademark.

1) Copyright: Exposure does not violate copyright, unless the exposer uses the actual words that someone else has written. Simply performing a trick and telling how it's done is merely using someone else's "idea" rather than their words. By law, ideas cannot be copyrighted.

2) Patent: This is the only area where magicians have any hope, but it's a long shot. If you patent a gimmick or device, you can sue anyone who exactly copies that gimmick or device. However, you have to register the patent, and the "copy" has to use a gimmick or device that is identical or virtually identical to your own. This, I believe, came up when the original sawing-a-woman-in-half illusions were created.

If knock-offs of the original device are made BEFORE a patent is applied for, the patent can't be registered.

3) Trademark: Obviously, this does not apply.

On to other things...

It would be nice if we could all just turn the channel. Unfortunately, magicians are almost forced to watch this guy so we know which of our tricks are being exposed.

I'm hopeful that ratings have dropped for MM. I certainly don't hear non-magicians talking about him anymore. Maybe he's a dog who's had his day.

By the way, I agree with the posters who say a good performer will be enjoyed even if people know his secret. We can all probably think of magicians who we enjoy watching, even if they're doing a standard trick that doesn't fool us. For me, I always enjoyed Doug Henning— he knew how to make magic magical, and even if I knew exactly what he was doing, he was still a joy to watch.
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