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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Fox: Secrets of Street Magicians Revealed (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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sanskara
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Another issue is that they didn't just reveal a few store bought effects. In the process of showing cig through coin, for example, they also demonstrated how a shuttle pass is used to switch the gaff in and out of the routine. This is bad for coin magicians everywhere (even if it was a sloppy shuttle pass.)

Additionally, when revealing the two card monte effect, they showed how to set up and execute a triple lift and a top change. These sleights are used in many card routines, and even a casual non-magician watching the show is likely to remember some aspect of the principles involved.

Ultimately, when you perform a more advanced effect for them at a later date, like ambitious, they may write off much of what they see as being something like what was on that Fox special. In other words, it kills the magic of the effect.

I find it hard to believe that if enough magicians get together we couldn't at least bring a case against Fox to the courts. The question is, who's up for it? I'm on board if anyone's interested.
Regards,
James Bostwick
Dr Mage
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I think that revealing the multiple lift (triple) was the most damaging part of the show.

Although I don't use one, revealing the swami gimmick was harsh, too.
What is the color of magic?
Warren Peace
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Well said sanskara! and Allan-F! and I can even understand the point of view of those that enjoyed the show (even though I hated everything about it...) but I know that it is possible to do "exposure of cons and charlatans without actually tipping the methods....there have been a few specials on the history channel and the travel channel, that have made a point of saying that some particular effect was not real magic or psychic phenomenon and they merely hint about the explanations without giving away trade secrets. There is a reason we call them trade SECRETS after all!!

Peace
Dr. Jakks
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I don't care who he is. I hope he chokes on his Werther's Original butterscotch candy.

Jakks
limhanchung
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If we want to defend ourselves,we should make a TV special of our own showing that our magic is clean.
davidpaul$
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Just a thought... I've been reading all the posts. We as magicians watched this (show)??
with a different set of eyes than the merely curious. We are intimately involved with these effects and techniques. We practice them for hours. We throw the cards across the room when the pass doesn't work for the umteenth time. Curiously, someone who watched the show and knew I was a magician said, they still didn't understand how some of the effects were done. No!! they didn't ride the little bus to school. Tripple lifts and top changes didn't register with them. Of course some things were obvious, but to lay people, who are not intimately involved like we are WILL FORGET and be fooled again in a week. They just don't see with the same eyes as we do. Just a thought!!
David Paul Smile
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Dr. Jakks
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Limhanchung,

No offense but if a magician made a special, the masked magician would just find our matierial and reveal it.

Jakks
philipi56
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This makes me extremely mad! Somebody might be able to sue because they didn't mention the Balducci method of the levitation. What's up with all of the "assistants"?

Philip
TOBIAS
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Quote:
On 2002-09-12 17:01, philipi56 wrote:
This makes me extremely mad! Somebody might be able to sue because they didn't mention the Balducci method of the levitation. What's up with all of the "assistants"?

Philip


Copy right are void after 7 years.
I feel the show wasn't as harmful as some make it out to be.
On the other hand if they drag our names through the mud like that again I will freak out on them. I hate more than anything else that they simply lead the public to believe we are trying to make them out to be fools, like we are com-men. We are some how cheating them.
Come on! Do you see anyone say acting is fack and they aren't really doing that on the moon.
NO!!!
Becuase it is a form of entertainment. They feel stupid becuase they were fooled, went out paid some small time magician more than he'll ever make. Now we have this...
It you don't have any tricks better than the ones exposed i'm sorry but please go learn some. It's not the end of the wolrd.
All of the guys that do this for a living will tell you simply this, They are still going to be fool a week later...





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Greg Arce
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I once wrote this up when the Masked Magician did his thing: Don't worry. This will all pass (no pun intended). When the first Fox series aired a few years ago I made it a point to gather some friends to watch the shows. I asked them about their thoughts and what they saw. Then about a month later I asked the same group to tell me what they saw. Guess what? Most barely remembered the secrets and couldn't even remember all the tricks that were displayed. Calm down and continue to perform. This show will quickly fade from most of the public's mind. I'm sure they are more fascinated by Anna Nicole than our little secrets.
Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
rasw
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Quote:
Copy right are void after 7 years.


I don't think this is correct.

The US Government has a website with a FAQ about copyright, that seems to indicate it's much longer: up to the authors lifetime + 70 years.

Also, they talk about how copyright a particular expression of an idea, and not the idea itself. It's interesting reading, but of course, ask your local attorney for real legal advice!

http://www.copyright.gov/faq.html
Payne
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Quote:
and they aren't really doing that on the moon.
NO!!!


Well yes actually. FOX ran a whole hour special last year on the suppossed fake moon landing. This probably had the boys at NASA as upset as we are about the MM programs.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Allan-F
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Quote:
On 2002-09-12 19:36, rasw wrote:
Quote:
Copy right are void after 7 years.

I don't think this is correct.
...much longer: up to the authors lifetime + 70 years.

Perhaps Tobias was thinking of patents? The time frame for patents is much shorter than copyright... perhaps 7 years?

There is a big difference, of course. Copyright lasts your whole life, and then some. It is considered an inherent right. Patents are only intended to last a short time. In exchange for a temporary monopoly--a head start in marketing the product--you agree to provide full disclosure and share your invention with the rest of the world. Thus, patents must be applied for and granted, whereas copyright is automatic on publication. While copyright is something you have by virtue of its being inherently yours, a patent is a voluntary contract between you and the rest of society.

I'm not sure of the legalities, but it seems to me that a magic trick is more something that would be patentable rather than copyrighted, so I'm not sure you could sue Fox over any kind of intellectual property rights unless the relevant effects had indeed been patented, and the time limit had not yet been exceeded. As rasw pointed out, ideas are not copyrightable.

On the other hand, you could perhaps sue over something else... like lost income due to malicious disclosure of trade secrets or somesuch. Again, I'm no lawyer, but this would seem a much trickier sort of lawsuit to pull off. Intent is 9/10ths of the law, and I'm pretty sure for such a suit, you'd have to show that the exposure was malicious in intent, and not educational in nature. I would think that just showing damage would not be enough.
Allan-F

"What can be thought of or spoken of necessarily IS, since it is possible for it to be, while it is not possible for NOTHING to be." -- Parmenides
Magicbarry
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I'll just address the copyright/patent etc. issue.

I went into more detail about this on the rumours board, so I'll just be brief here.

The duration of copyright varies from country to country. It has changed several times in recent years. Just a couple of years ago, it was "life+50" (that is, fifty years after the death of the author). However, many countries are now going to 70 years. The U.S. is one of those countries. Canada is still at 50 years. I'm not sure about the U.K.

In any event, copyright is not an issue here: it would only apply if the Masked Magician were repeating word for word what was spoken/written by another magician.

As for patent law, the exposer would have to be using a device that had been patented. And more importantly, the exposer would have to be reproducing and marketing that device. Patent law doesn't prevent someone from exposing how a device works -- it only prevents them from reproducing the device.

The only area of intellectual property law that could potentially apply is Trade Secrets and Confidential Information. Unfortunately, we come up on the short end here. To grossly oversimplify: a magic secret could only be considered confidential information in this case if the creator of the illusion had told the Masked Magician the secret with the understanding on both parts that the Masked Magician was not to reveal the secret.

It's unlikely any court would consider most magical secrets to be "trade secrets" or "confidential information" under the law. Since magic books and tricks are available to the general public, the idea of a "magician's code of ethics" would only be seen as good manners, rather than something legally binding. (The courts would say that magicians routinely reveal secrets for profit.) Also, I believe Allan mentioned this, we'd have to be able to prove that the exposure genuinely affected the ability of magicians to earn a living. That would be and extremely difficult thing to prove.

Sadly, exposing magical secrets is generally no more illegal than giving the way the ending of The Crying Game.

Good news, though: since this most recent special came as a surprise to many of us (I actually didn't hear about it until it was posted here afterwards), chances are few laypersons knew about it. The Masked Magician's day is done. Now he's been reduced to capitalizing on the success of David Blaine.

By the way, excuse my ignorance on this, but didn't the Masked Magician reveal his identity several years ago? Is the guy responsible for the new specials the same guy, or is there a new Masked Magician?
SpiffnikHopkins
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yeah I htought after the last special he took his mask off and he was just some smoe. Not David Blaine (duh), Copperfield, Burton or someone who was anyone in the magic community. Once he revaled himself, everyone just kinda said, "who's that?", I forget his name but I'm pretty sure the last guy wasn't American. He was something west European. Anyway I'm pretty sure this is a new guy. Just goes to show how not even we remember the guy or secrets revealed not all that long ago...See my post earlier in the thread. I don't think magic in general has been hit that hard. If I was DB, I'd be upset, but so many ppl admire him so greatly anyway. Life goes on even for him I'm sure.

~Spiff
Jeff Dial
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The main reason for copyrights lasting 50-70 years in the US has a lot to do with a little fellow called Mickey Mouse.
"Think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise" HHGG
Magicman0323
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Valentino was the original masked magician.
You'll wonder when I'm coming, you'll wonder even more when I'm gone. - Max Malini
Morganite
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damm exposing. We all live in a place where all persons like to explore secrets.
cheaptrick
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The essence of magic is in presentation, not just "doing tricks".

People want to be entertained.

I can't believe that there are enough people out there who just want to know how it's done to give this show a healthy-enough Nieson rating to make the cut.

Anyone out there with access to the Nielsons?

This has to be one of the worse shows on TV.



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"Pick any card. NOT that one!!!"
gtxby33
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I'm absolutely convinced that guy was the masked magician....
white hats rule.
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