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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Which monte dvd to get? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magician81
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Hi all,

after I got Michael skinner's 3 card monte, I fell in love with this game. I found tat there r quite a no. of excellet dvds covering 3 card monte: Sal Piacente: Street Monte - Three Card Monte (DVD), Daryl does the full monte dvd, & School for Scoundrels 3 card monte dvd. I considered myself as a beginner as I only played around with Michael skinner 3 card monte. so any advice will be greatly appreciated.

thxs
never try, never know
Hoggle
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I like the Skinner routine too! I own Daryl's DVD and besides Skinner's routine, own nothing else you mentioned. That may be important to you.

That said, I found no reason to investigate other options after getting Daryl's tape. There is a wealth of information. Even if you get the others, I suggest starting with Daryl's.
Merry Christmas
redstreak
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I don't own any of the others, but Daryl's is VERY good. He covers many differeny techniques and methods.
Jim Wilder
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Get them all. The more information you can acquire about the subject, the better.
ImpromptuBoy
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If you want to get Street Hustle style Monte at its best, then Sal Piacente's DVD is great. I have his stuff and he goes into so much detail on the moves and he explains them clear as crystal. On the DVD, he shows you footages of him doing the Monte on the streets for cash (in reality, it's punishable by law so don't do it).
Overall, it's great and shouldn't miss out on the best source EVER made on the subject.
Cheers,

Michael
rowdymagi5
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I can highly reccomend Daryls DVD. He goes into detail and its also a great resource for other card moves that come in handy for other tricks.
Whit Haydn
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The School for Scoundrels 2 vol DVD on the Three-Card Monte is the most complete resource available on the three-card monte, and has three hours of video instruction plus contains a 165 page book with over 180 photos and illustrations in .pdf format.

There is a lot of original and unpublished material both in the video and written sections of the course from myself, Bob Kohler, Ron Wohl, R. Paul Wilson, Chef Anton, Doc Eason, Gazzo, and others.

The School for Scoundrels book was the major resource for Daryl's dvd.
MJ Marrs
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I've watched the School for Scoundrel's DVD several times and I refer to their huge booklet often. It's the most comprehensive resource available. I can hardly wait until they decide to offer a DVD on the Three Shell Game.
Whit Haydn
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The first dvd on the shell game will be out in January. It is called "An Introduction to the Shell Game" and is Volume I of the "School for Scoundrels Shell Game Series."

It has more than an hour of video instruction, and over eighty pages of instruction, historical information, study aids, etc. all in .pdf format.

It is an introduction to a whole new system of working the shell game, created by Bob Sheets and myself. The two of us teach the system on the dvd just as it was taught to this years School for Scoundrels class at the Magic Castle, and future dvd's will expand on the foundation this one creates.

It includes a beginning routine with patter, and advanced and master moves that take the beginning student to an intermediate level with the shells. It also contains an advanced routine with patter that makes use of the system and the new moves and maneuvers.

This is a whole new approach and a complete system for working the shells. The dvd contains original unpublished material by Bob Sheets and myself, with new moves, strategies, and ruses.

We think you are going to like it a bunch. We are very jazzed about it.
MentaThought
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Since, in the USA, the Three Card Monte and Shell Game are banned from being performed on the streets a la "the good old days" (the first and only time I saw them played was on top of orange crates on the sidewalks near Times Square about 35 years ago, I think) where are these hustles performed nowadays? As part of ordinary magic performances as exhibitions with with no actual gambling aspects?
Another question which I didn't see satisfactorily addressed in the interesting thread when Whit Haydn was a Café guest of honor some time ago is the issue of whether the Monte and Shell games are *necesarily* "scams". That is, can they ever be considered simply to be "legitimate games of skill" like regular card games in which no one is by definition "cheated" or "scammed"? Or are they instead by their very nature unfair "hustles" or "scams" in which the player couldn't win, or the odds were soooooo stacked against him that it was virtually impossible, or extremely unlikely, that he ever would win?
If the Monte or Shell games can be legitimate games of skill then wouldn't it be hypocritical that they're banned while casinos from coast to coast, where the vast majority of players end up losing, are actually promoted by local governments.
"A good mentalist ... will teach you a miracle because he understands the subtleties ..." -- Banachek

"If this works it'll be BEAUTIFUL!" - The Amazing Kreskin on a stunning effect he performed on his 1970s television series (PS: it worked)
Whit Haydn
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Three-Card Monte and the Shell Game have been legally banned in many places at different times for hundreds of years. Three-Card Monte was illegal in New York when it flourished in the 70's. It was illegal in New Orleans when Phillipe was run out of town in the 1840's. The legality or illegality never matters. It is a felony in Los Angeles and San Francisco to play monte or the shell game, but I see it played in downtown LA on Broadway every summer, and every summer you can find both monte and the shell game being played by the warf in San Francisco.

It is the resolution of the authorities to enforce the law that waxes and wanes.

Usually when the game becomes so commonplace that it begins to impact the local merchants (or at least they become afraid it does) the authorities crack down as in New York. The game often just moves to a different part of town--from Times Square to Canal Street. Sometimes, it just moves from open to closed monte--from an open street hustle to a closed private game like Texas Twister.

Throughout its history, the three main short cons (monte/shells/fast & loose) have shuffled back and forth between the open and closed versions--depending on the working conditions of the time and the interest or lack of interest by the authorities.

All of these games are still being played somewhere at any given moment. If they are pushed off the public street, they move into pool halls, car washes, race tracks, and stadium parking lots.

Fast and Loose is based on a total lie, and is always a swindle, even if not always a confidence game. Monte and the Shell Game are also always swindles, even if not confidence games.

If any of these games are played without shills, they are no longer confidence games.

But that doesn't make them legit. The odds are wrong for starters--even money against 2 to 1 odds. Secondly, there is not openess about the rules and play involved. Would you play if you knew that the pea was not likely under any of the shells when you bet? Or that the pea would be removed from the shell you guessed it was under before it was turned over?

Would you bet on a Queen if you knew that the performer could change the card in the act of turning it over, or that he might use secret switches of the cards at times and in ways you were not anticipating?

If an operator played the game three-card monte with someone completely openly, without shills, and with the spectator completely knowledgeable about the ways he could be beaten using sleight of hand--the game would be more of a game of skill.

But it would still be a sucker's game, with the spectator not having a chance to win, and the likelihood of disagreements, fights, and disorder would be great.
mota
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I did enjoy the Darrell DVD on 3 card monte, but I do remember thinking, "He just ripped off the school for scoundrels book and made it into a DVD."

The video by Darrell is quite good and worth the money, I just mention this b/c for some, it will matter.

If I would have known, I would have waited for school for scoundrels DVD on monte.
MentaThought
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Wow, little did I suspect that my query would get the kind of outstanding, highly informative response it did -- and from one of the world's acknowledged experts in the field, to boot!
Thanks a million, sir!
"A good mentalist ... will teach you a miracle because he understands the subtleties ..." -- Banachek

"If this works it'll be BEAUTIFUL!" - The Amazing Kreskin on a stunning effect he performed on his 1970s television series (PS: it worked)
paisa23
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I personally love the daryl version. I have Skinners ultimite 3 card but then again if you want impromtu then I would go with Daryl
zur
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Looks like you have a good collection of Monte DVDs. I would suggest watching the DVDs several times to make sure you capture the little detail.
Whit Haydn
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Don't misunderstand what I said about Daryl. Daryl did not "rip off" anything. He is a great friend of ours.

His very excellent dvd was made a couple of years after our book was published and he used our book as one of his primary sources. He told us about what he was doing beforehand, and he credited our book on the dvd. He is a friend and promoter of the School for Scoundrels.

There was nothing underhanded or wrong with the way he did things, and we sell his dvd and think it is an extremely valuable piece that is focused in a completely different direction than the School for Scoundrels products, and has much other information on the three-card monte that didn't come from our work.

His focus was on exhibition routines for magicians, ours is on the actual methods, history, and psychology of the street con man.

So what I said was not meant in any way to be a dig at Daryl. Just a clarification.

The School for Scoundrels book was a major resource for Daryl's dvd, as it probably will be for many other works by others.

Research is research. We are proud that we have created such a milestone in the literature on con games, and expect to see many others in the future build on the foundation that we have set.

We highly recommend Daryl's dvd, and think it is very complementary to our book and dvd. You would be well advised to study it along with our products.
HypnoticQueen
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I would go for Daryl Does Full Monte.
Darren Roberts
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I just recieved the School for Scoundrels Three Card Monte DVD set today, and while I obviously haven't been able to go through all of it yet, I will say that it is an EXCELLENT product. If you want to be a student of the three card monte, this is the way to go. I'm now trying to figure out ways to save money in order to buy many more of the School for Scoundrel products. I'm very excited about it.

I was wondering how the authorities might respond to a busking exhibition of any of these games. Say you draw a crowd then show these swindles as part of your show but don't allow any money to be wagered. How would the authorities react then?

Thanks Whit for such excellent products. I'm looking forward to also learning the three shell game and fast and loose from the Scoundrels.
mota
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My apologies to Daryl.
Danny Diamond
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If you like Skinner's 3 Card Monte, I would suggest learning Bill Malone's handling of the effect. It can be found on Volume 1 in the On the Loose series.
You don't drown by falling in the water;

you drown by staying there.



- Edwin Louis Cole
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Which monte dvd to get? (0 Likes)
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