Although I rarely post, I visit the forum on a daily basis.

I have known Mark for a good while now - he told me the story last summer.

Mark, I'm really sorry that the saga continues. I'd just like to echo my support for you mate.

Chris Murphy really sums up all my feelings on this one. This industry needs new creators - Mark is one of the best of the "new thinkers". I certainly think that Chris is right in that these few individuals fear what Mark has already brought to the industry with his creations.

Lets hope an "old boys club" does not exist, ultimately it is the art that will suffer.

I Agree a lot of People Have Used my Ideas as Well. I'm not a Illusion Designer but I can change stuff. and it seems to me like the others are Jealous of New Talent/Better Ideas

Hey guys;

I am sorry to hear of all the drama going on. But after hearing about it and seeing the posts I recaled the Peter Gossamer illusion. Anyone that maybe interested, there's a video of it here :

http://www.universidadedamagica.com/udm/......amer.asp

If anyone has more info as to the time line of this illusion I'd love to hear about it.

Matt

Just putting in my two YTL's in here - that is Yeni Türk Lirasý (or New Turkish Lira - last night the Lira lost its six zeros at the end, so whereas yesterday I was a millionaire, I am just your average guy on the street now!)

Spiral (as shown on the Chadwick page) and Revolution ( as in Mark Parker's book look completely different, especially from the audience point of view.

The former is a modern version of the Mismade where the assistant is vertically standing, cut and rearranged, whereas the Revolution is a clever deception which does not assume that the girl is cut up, rather that she is able to contort her body to fit in the various sections, her hand being on view at all times.

As far as the esthetics of the illusions, I would not entertain Spiral at all. It lloks like two oil drums cut up and stacked together - cumbersome and frankly ugly.
Mark's plan in his book refines the look with a neat modern square, a thin table upon which to place the said box, and other subtleties which enhance the illusion.

Russ Stevens presentation of this ( as seen on Talking Tel. Nos.) ***ized the original with a rather obvious pedestal which distracted from the streamline design of Revolution.

Whoops - that my money spent!

Mark,

What is the patent number he gave you?

As an illusion Designer. I've reviewed the two props. Working with mark on a few of his designs professionally, and working with mark on developing graphical representations in three-d, that THIS particular design is the case of a genious mind and coincidence. Now TECHNICALLY the illusions are very different. Totally different beasts. Yeah they may be similar in thought however, they are two totally different designs and ideas. Mark is right. Its petty. And stupid that he's trying to lie to everyone to get mark to Pull it from a book, and fabrication. Its just stupid. I think its probably the last we'll hear from it...
And if not. I'll just call the patent office & the and have someone from there call Chadwick and let em know about pantent fraud & have someone remind him about sending false papers dealing with patents.

The old boys club DOES exists. As a young elite designer myself I've observed and delt with numerous individuals with this old line and old way of thinking and I'm convinced that their way is going to die.
Its time for new cutting edge magic and design. Mark parker, JC Sum, Michelangelo, Chance Wolf & IEI.
All new over the edge modern illusion builders and designers. I've been honored to work with a few of these guys. They are all ethical, original and elite in their own way. The important thing is an open mind and the ability to re invent magic as we know it today.

I'm wondering if we should start a new association. The association of modern magic & Illusion. ha....
Just my two cents..

Sounds like Mr C. is Jealous. Mr. P's Idea is Better.

Thanks for the info Mark

I shall be obtaining your book soon, but do you have another one in the works I'm sure we all want to see a second book.

As for the old boys club I think that Ryan is right there time is over. Theres a new school of thought coming through in the area of illusion and whats intresting is that they all seem to post here, I think we already have a new association thanks to the magic Café.
With regards to the spiral illusion ive been looking at it and its to big for my liking, I much perfer the revolution approach, its a lot more impressive to an audience, I alwasy find that if you have an illusion where the assistant is standing up, the first assumption is that she simply bends down, but if she has to curl up to get in the box in the first place, then that throws that out of the window.

keep up the good work.

Ross

Why can't both the old boys club and the new ones try working together.

I know Peter and Bruce and both are upright guys in all my dealings. That is only thing I can base my opinion on.

I believe Peter's Tubular was built by Bill Smith. I have worked with him a couple of times and I think that is correct. It is a neat idea of an old illusion. Basically, it is an electrified Mismade Lady.

Now if we want to argue about the rights to that illusion's invention, that can open up another whole can of worms.

As for old school or new school, I think that is a ridiculous comment. I think is more a case of paying your dues. Once the dues are paid, there is no difference between old and new. But one cannot suddenly starting making magic and expect to be privy to same information, respect and such, in such a short time. But it will come if you stay the high road.

I don't think anybody here has expressed any concern about Peter Gossamer's illusion, it was merely a point in comparison that visually it had some similarity to the Spiral Illusion.

This thread is primarily relating to attempts by certain people to paint Mark Parker's Revolution illusion as a rip-off of Bruce Chadwick's Spiral. In any case, I think the Spiral seems to have more in common with the old Cutting in Sixths than with a Mismade, and the only similarities (based on the description on the Chadwick website and the Gossamer video link above) with the Gossamer illusion are the round shape and the swing-in blades.

Agree with you Richard on old school / new school - doesn't matter what school you went to, it's the quality of the work that's the important thing and that and proper conduct on the way will get the respect of most in the long run. It is just unfortunate that that some people are very quick to assume others are doing the wrong thing without actually taking the time to make proper, courteous contact and investigate the situation fully.

For the old/new school thing I figure why cant people learn from each other. or at least listen to their ideas. evreyone should be able to get along.

Hey Mark,
Do add one more lil guy to the support team.
I have worked with Mark and even started a thread in this forum. His designs are refreshingly new and I don't think that a guy who can come up with such designs needs to copy.
Cheers

Ok looking at the different pictures of Mark and Chadwicks props. I find that they LOOK totally different. What I mean by that is one is square and the other is circle. But they do have th general same idea. But I have to be up-front. Mark your piece looks a hell of a lot better and looks totally deceptive and a lot cleaner. To me it seems that they are definatly there are some differenance in how it works and what not. So that concludes to me that it is a piece that you have design and created and marketed ethically. It is just like the floating table. Look at how many dfferent methods there are.

I find that Mark is a very creative and ingenious when it comes to creating new things. To steal someones ideas is far from who Mark is. Yes that is a lot from someone that only knows mark threw the Café. But from what I hear and understand Mark is the up-and-coming designer of todays world.

Mark,

We are behind you. Thanks for being up-front with all of us. This shows the passion you have with what you design. Keep it real.

Cheers

Michael

Remember, in the 70's, Doug Henning was considered 'new school' and didn't have a lot of respect from the old school. ("What's this hippie doing in magic").

Us in our 40's now, are the 'middle school', we still repect and learn from the 'old school' and enjoy the exciting new faces being put on older methods by the 'new school'.

it's like old school rock and new school rap. It it wasn't for Blondie (Rapture), Aerosmith (with Run DMC) and others, we'd be back in the 70's when rock was boring, and not the great rock of the 80's, that rivals some of the riffs of the 50's. Take a look at the 'Bowling for Soup' video, 1985, and it puts some things in perspective.

This is a normal reaction though, since the time of Plato.

http://plato-dialogues.org/faq/faq003.htm

the father accustoms himself to become like his child and fears his sons, while the son likens himself to his father, and feels neither shame nor fear in front of his parents, so he may be free ; the metic becomes the equal of a citizen and the citizen of a metic, and similarly with the foreigner.
It indeed so happens, he said.
To these, said I, such trifles do add up: the teacher, in such a case, fears his pupils and fawns upon them, while pupils have in low esteem their teachers as well as their overseers; and, overall, the young copy the elders and contend hotly with them in words and in deeds, while the elders, lowering themselves to the level of the young, sate themselves with pleasantriesand wit, mimicking the young in order not to look unpleasant and despotic.

After reading this post, I visited Chadwick's web site and got a good laugh out of one of the first words that jumped out at me on the page: Fabrications.

LOL!

Avi

Sometimes things are looked into a bit more than face value when writing on this board and people get the wrong idea or the wrong impression. This old school/new school thing is really starting to irritate me. I never said that looking to our elders is a bad thing. I never said OLD magic or past illusions or effects are bad. What I did suggest is that there seems to be a few individuals who have this old line of thinking where individuals don't work together and the old way of thinking is the only way or the highway.

I am a firm believer (ask anyone I've worked with) of working together, and using what had been done and learning from what works and what does not work. Looking to our founding fathers so to speak and using their experience and knowledge to expand our thought and design to push the edge of magic and illusion as we know it.. I do feel that the people who refuse to advance magic, or work together or refuse to work in an ethical manner will fall…..

"The important thing is an open mind and the ability to re invent magic as we know it today."

Dear All,

It is so encouraging to read all the points of view that surround this sour issue instigated by Mr. Chadwick.

I personally strive to create new illusions that are innovative, deceptive and encourage performers to add new material to their acts. I have respect for anyone who creates ideas and would never wish to tread on 'others' toes during my design process.

I had reservations about posting this thread but I am so glad it is finally out in the open, especially now its backed with the support of the Café members that have been kind enough to post and realize the truth. I am writing this while away from the office, on my return I will post the patent number that sits on top of the spiral document I received from Bruce, so you can all log on to the patent site to see where it lands.

Thanks again

Mark Parker

I have known Bruce Chadwick for many years. It surprises me that he would pull a stunt like that with phoney patent papers and a bad patent number. I did a background search for James Rayleigh, and there is no such person on the voter's rolls or the drivers license rolls in the state of Texas.

This is very out of character for Bruce. I'm not making excuses for him. I'll do some inquiring to see what might be his side of the story.

Meanwhile, I'm sorry to learn of this.

Bill,

Good luck with getting a sensible answer from Bruce.

David Mendoza, Scott Penrose (magic circle council member), Philip Hitchcock (uk illusionist hassled by Chadwick's fake papers for making my first Revolution illusion)and myself are all yet to receive an explanation from Bruce. The evidence speaks for itself I cannot fathom what 'reason' other than what has been posted on this thread, he may have for his dishonest and illegal actions.

Please update us all when you you speak with Bruce..even better get him to post up on the Café.

Thanks

Mark