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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
I suppose Magicians could continulaly Bomb Fox tv's email addresses!
Phillip |
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Dr. Jakks Special user 832 Posts |
Why are we ****** and !@#$#^$%ing? It only makes us sound like an angry mob. The man will choke on the magical expanding cough drop I gave him. I know, I'm phsycic!
Jakks |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Far be it for me to play devil's advocate but let me explain my qualifications in this case...
Back when the FIRST "Masked Magician" video was made by FOX (mid-1980s) I was on the Castle's hit list of suspects... Why? You may ask. Well, aside from the fact that a couple of the props featured in the tape had once belonged to me, the body shape, etc. of the gent in question matched mine, Dean Hankey and Franz Harrary's at the time... However, the key player was actually a youngman who'd just gotten married and needed a quick (if I recall correctly) $5,000.00 to start his life... His name was Hal Marquadt and as I understand it, he's still doing magic on a small cruise line... he's not allowed to belong to any magic clubs, but... Hal was an acquantance... Val on the other hand, was a dear (and still is) friend. His impetus for doing the deed had little to do with money and quite honestly, a lot to do with what he said... Challenging the magic industry to catch up with the times. As much as we've complained about what he did, look around and see for yourself how much innovation has come about in the past few years since his actions... I can't sustain his reason for doing it, but I think he indirectly brought about some tremendous good... we need to wiegh that out. So here we are... two scenarios and reasons for exposure. I know this don't take the "ouch" out of something... especially when one of your pet effects is tipped... but don't look at things in a defeated manner... see the exposure as a challenge to your creative to do said bit better, possibly differently, and fool those watching. I've shared time and again how the L.A. Times exposed the Johnson Cigaretter Thru Quarter in a Sunday edition and how this was one of my pet bits... I was also doing a gig at the Castle that morning... After a few hours of playing around, making up some last minute "gimmicks" I ended up with a better routine (nearly 10-minutes of time) involving a borrowed coin into which I burnt a hole... did all kinds of bits with it... restored it... then (while pointing to the Times picture) asked all that witnessed the bit "How on earth could I do all that using something that ugly, clunky and obvious?" Most everyone that saw that bit complained about the Times article taking the readers for being fools, to believe such a thing were really how the trick worked. I'm not supporting the act of exposure. I am pointing out however what my friend Val pointed out in his farewell speach and what my own actions have proven... this is a reason for us to embrace change, creativity and advancement. A challenge to us all, to bring our art out of antiquity and to stop leaning on "the same old thing" that's always been there. Yes! I think the good folks at FOX need a visit from cousin Vinnie and his little friend... a properly placed horse head or two might get the point across... but I think we need to produce our own Expose' show that lends a contrast e.g. FOX said we do it this way but, watch close and tell me how that's possible? It's food for thought...
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Kjellstrom Inner circle Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe 5203 Posts |
The exposure of some secrets itself is not damaging the magic, but the concept they present the secrets makes people think its very simple to perform magic and the illusion of real magic will vanish forever...
All PR is good but this kind of PR is both good and bad. I only prefer the good PR for the magic world. I hope you "yankees" can stop this terrible trend of exposures in public TV, soon! |
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mysticz Special user D.C. metro area 680 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-11 12:40, Darmoe wrote: I think we need to focus on more important things (like improving our own performances and capabilities) and deny the exposure shows any further attention. The mechanics and puzzle elements of magic should not be emphasized or made a focal point of any presentation for laypeople...it only reinforces the idea that the secret is everything. Joe Z.
Joe Zabel
"Psychic Sorcery" There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -- Shakespeare's Hamlet I.v. 174-175 |
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E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
Craig, no disrespect to your post, but come on, there is no excuse for what the guy did.
He did it for money, plain & simple. You can choose to look at from any angle you want but the fact is ..he exposed magic. He took it upon himself to become the spoke person for the whole magic fraternity. He is a weesle. I'm sure you would feel differently if it was your product that was exposed. Let me give you an example. How would you like it if some one here just decided to say "Hey I think the whole magic comunity would benifit from exposing your "Psychic Technologies" right now" Some one just decides to expose it free of charge, you get nothing from it. Hey and the excuse is...we will all benifit from it, make it better. Everyone on the cafe will get your transcript for free. Thats nice isn't it...it betters the comunity here. That is the exact same reasoning . ..Who decided to make him spoke person of your writtings ? Same thing with Mr. weesle Hal Marquadt , who made him God of the magic fraternity ?...to take it upon himself to judge ? ( all rhetorical questions) Happy place, happy place, happy place.... E-Leoni. |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
Hi,
First I must say that the Exposures have not harmed me, However, I think that the Crux of the issue regarding Hal's excuse is even if that was really his motive. I do not think he had the right to make that decision on every other magicians behalf. if someone really thinks magic is stuck in the past Ext then by all means develop a ground breaking act. do Not make decisions for other people and their lively hoods. Just my opinion Phillip |
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E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
This Hal Marquadt, does he have a stage name, or does he go by HAl MARQUADT ?
I'd like to meet this guy. Him and his new wife. WHo knows he might be a nice guy. I think we should all make a point of trying to understand the man HAL MARQUADT, find out more about him instead of misjudging him. I think we should embrace this man, comfort him, let him know everything is going to be ok. Yes, he may of hurt and broken one of our most sacred oaths, but he probably didn't know about it. We should teach him that life doesn't beging at $5000, but that their is much more out there. Perhaps he feels bad about what he did. We should all try and understand this poor soul. I for one am going to make the attempt. So Craig, if you don't mind, tell me which cruise line. I've taken two last year, I enjoy them very much. I would like to shake this mans hand for making our magic comunity a better one, and for teaching us that we must progress at his pace. Praise Hal Marquadt! Hal Marquadt! Hal Marquadt! What a wonderfull englighten man. E-Leoni. |
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Bruno New user 62 Posts |
Payne's playlet makes the best case so far for discontinuing our paranoia of exposure. In the sixteenth century a huge tome was published by Cornelius Agrippa which detailed all the spells any aspiring witch or wizard could wish for.Did it cause the downfall of the occult movement? I don't think so...it just got weirder. The enlightenment changed nothing in regrds to peoples personal spiritual beliefs and modern science has all but conclusively revealed the universe to be a self creating phenomenon, yet religion and the belief in an independent creator continues to be popular as ever in the so called modern world.Relax, reinvent and be lucky! Bruno..... Oh and by the way I am the reincarnation of the sixteenth century mystic monk known as Giordano Bruno....Nurse, nurse!
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-11 13:15, E-Leoni wrote: Leoni I agree with you 110% and I agree with what Joe Z. said up above re: not giving the issue any further attention e.g. the more we scream the more they're going to do it... we are giving them "the power" as it were. In regards to being "ripped off" in that way... trust me, as a designer and consultant I know that pain all too well. There's a noted manufacturing company in Vegas I used to be involved with that (according to some) still lists some of my illusion designs as their own... some of these effects I've built for other people but hey... We wont go down that path... As to how to put an end to this kind of thing? I think we need to call in some Italian Business Men (the IBM) and simply establish an industry wide statute... you talk, we break'a your legs and give you a Sicilian Neck Tie party...
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Dr. Jakks Special user 832 Posts |
Hey Darmoe, you are being a bit of a devils advocate....the guy kinda looked like you too......WAIT A SECOND!!!!!YOU ARE HIM!!!!!
Jakks |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Unfortunatley I have one of "those" faces... it reminds folks of their recent visits to the Post Office, watching those Cop Shows on Tv, etc.
(I guess that's what I get for working carnies, selling funeral plots and used cars... )
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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rasw New user 15 Posts |
Quote:
I only caught bits of the special, but the MM exposed mentalism bits like the 37 force, a mechanical version of PK Time, a PK match effect, along with the Balducci levitation and (I believe) a center tear or other peek (I missed the explanation for that one). I don't disagree with your post (I saw the show and was displeased, too!), but does the "37 Force" really fool people? I wouldn't dare use that on people, because I think most folks know (or can figure out) the principles involved behind it.... |
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iluznst New user Los Angeles 66 Posts |
At the risk of offending anybody... I think we've pretty well beat the tar out of this one and humbly request that this topic be locked.
DA |
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saglaser Loyal user Champaign, IL 248 Posts |
Before we lock this topic, I believe that the Hal Marquadt story has a bit more to it.
As I heard the history, Marquadt was approached with a contract to make a tape teaching magic, tricks to be chosen by the producers. It was only after he signed the contract that they pulled the fast one on him -- they wanted him to "teach" the illusions. Obviously, these were not tricks that the viewer could learn to do in his spare time, and Marquadt found that'd he was trapped in a contract requiring him to do exposure -- not at all what he thought he was agreeing to do. Having no legal choice in the matter if he wanted to avoid an expensive lawsuit, he grudgingly went through with it but insisted on wearing a mask. That, of course, only made it worse in the long run. Anyway, my tuppence is this: Exposure sucks and is wrong. However, if we keep our performances mired in mere tricks and puzzles and bad jokes, rather than using magic as the special effects to make a more meaningful performance, that we're painting the targets on our own backs and handing snipers the guns. We ain't got much room to complain when one takes a shot. |
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A l a i n B e ll o n Veteran user 302 Posts |
Some people do learn from the exposure shows. So must we.
It is hard to predict what will happen to magic/mentalism due to exposure shows. But it certainly affects the way we perform, and it should. By being aware of which methods are exposed we are better prepared to either find alternatives or present them such that they are not recognized. In my opinion we should not go to the extremes and think that it either it doesn't affect the audience or that all is lost. "...makes people think its very simple to perform magic..." Well but magic and mentalism is very simple to do. On the other hand, good magic or good mentalism is extremely hard to do (and I would say the letter is even more the case). In my personal experience I have encountered many people that know some "methods" either through exposure or through reading available books on the subject. And in all cases it has affected the way they perceive things. So my job is not only to hide the secret from them but to make them belive there is no secret. At that point exposure makes little difference. -Alain Bellon Quote:
Exposure sucks and is wrong. However, if we keep our performances mired in mere tricks and puzzles and bad jokes, rather than using magic as the special effects to make a more meaningful performance, that we're painting the targets on our own backs and handing snipers the guns. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your words here but one of the last things I would like is having my effects perceived as special effects. Reminds me of a pet peeve of a friend of mine, one that I share, he is always complaining about how magic performance always seems to need something else to support itself as entertainment. Some use comedy, music, dancing, some even sing. Is it that magic cannot be strong enough by itself to support the whole performance? I am not saying that a performance should be without other elements. What I am saying is that it is often the case that the magic takes a secondary spot to the other parts. In that case would the performer be a singer/comedian/dancer/story teller that dresses up the performance with some "magic effects"? Why can't it be the other way around? Next time you see a performance look at how much weight is given to each aspect of it. You may be surprised. I keep asking... where is the magic? (and no I am not talking about the poetic magic) -Alain Bellon |
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Andy Leviss Inner circle NYC 1179 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-11 13:12, mysticz wrote: Beautifully said, Joe. As I've said every time one of these shows come on, if we make a big stink out of it, it gets attention, and the producers keep making more of them. If we ignore them, nobody watches them and they go away. Seriously, does anybody know the ratings for this rerun? I doubt they're at all high. Nobody cares except magicians. Quote:
Craig wrote: I know (I hope) you were joking, Craig, but seriously, this sort of attitude is the LAST thing we need to do. When threats towards Val came out, that was exactly what Fox wanted. It went from being a two-bit show nobody gave a darn about to a show mired in controversy to the point that it's secretive star's life was in danger. It was the public outcry by magicians that caused there to be more than one MM special, IMHO. --A
Note: I have PMs turned off; if you want to reach me, please e-mail [email]Andy.MagicCafe@DucksEcho.com[/email]!
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