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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Troy Hooser's 3 Fly (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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GeorgeSantos
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San Diego, CA
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I'm a newbie in coin magic and now classic effect I'd like to learn is 3Fly/VCA. I purchased a coin sh**L because I heard it would be a standard tool in some 3 Fly effects. I heard of Troy Hooser 3 Fly variations that he uses F*i**er Coins.
Does Troy Hooser teach 3 Fly with Coin Sh**Ls? If he does, what volume in his Total Destruction dvds does he teaches 3 Fly with the use of a coin sh*ll only.
And also, what volume of Total Destruction dvd set uses the coin sh*ll the most?
"David Roth is the greatest coin manipulator in the entire world.."

-Dai Vernon "The Professor"


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Werner G. Seitz
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Troy Hooser doesn't use a ] at all in any of his DVDs.
You can't use a ] for 3 fly, there is no fast and natural way (AFAIK) of getting it *off* the coin.
What can be used, is a so called sliding ], but that is an entirely different design.
Use your ] for other coins across versions, coins in a spec hands, and similar, there are lots of good routines out there...
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Jonathan P.
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I think Maxime Montier in his "brain damage" video uses a shell for an VCA routine. But it sucks... I don't like the routine at all...
I think you'd better to follow Werner's piece of advice.
Jonathan.
steve proescher
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George: From the table of contents on Troy's dvds:
Vol 1 has 3Fly 1 and 3Fly 2.
Vol 3 has 3Fly Simplified.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2005-01-11 04:42, Werner G. Seitz wrote:
...You can't use a ] for 3 fly, there is no fast and natural way (AFAIK) of getting it *off* the coin....

Please look in Hoffmann's More Magic for this. What I found there was integral to developing the trick.

From what you find there, it is an obvious step to using $1.35 type coin sets for the trick.

The use of Dusheck's shell for billiards type routines using coins was also explored way back in 77 when his "Slippery Sam" coin set hit the market.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
el toro
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Across the atlantic
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Quote:
On 2005-01-11 04:42, Werner G. Seitz wrote:

You can't use a ] for 3 fly, there is no fast and natural way (AFAIK) of getting it *off* the coin.

I disagree. I have a way of getting the coin out of the shell, fast and natural. If you are interested PM me.
Almost-A-Magician
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Correction to Warner Seitz...

Troy Hooser does use a [ for a fantastic routine called ExTroydinary in volume one of his DVD's...it is also covered in his book. It is a succession of productions and vanishes...that IMO is a bit more entertaining than most 3 fly's. Just my opinion.

There used to be a demo video of ExTroydinary being performed by Oz Pearlman on the Penguin Magic site under the Expanded Half [. He's not Troy..but it will give you a basic idea of the routine.

Anyway...it is a GREAT routine with a shell.
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2005-01-11 07:24, Jonathan Townsend wrote:

The use of Dusheck's shell for billiards type routines using coins was also explored way back in 77 when his "Slippery Sam" coin set hit the market.

Yes, but I am reasoning -when talking about 3 Fly as a mostly fingertips across, so sliding the ] over a coin is easy, but getting it out therefrom with one hand whilst the coins are hold at the fingertips is not that easy.

However it is possible to drop it to the fingerpalm and produce it therefrom as many of the 3 Fly users do...somehow though I feel getting a ] away from a coin during a smooth 3 Fly routine might be a bit troublesom though not impossible.

I don't think I would go to the trouble of using a ], whilst a flipper or the sliding ] is a good option.

OTOH, seeing ppl like Denis Behr doing a gaffless version I have to say, the deception is as good as when using gaffed versions..

I've though not too many ppl seen doing gaffless 3 Fly's, still hoping your handling Jon, will get *visual* one day..
I've my magnifying glass ready Smile - for the quarters Smile


--------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
On 2005-01-11 08:06, el toro wrote:
I disagree. I have a way of getting the coin out of the shell, fast and natural. If you are interested PM me.

Well, the usual way is to hold the covered coin between thumb and forefinger by the ] and let the coin drop to the fingers/fingerplam..

Another way is to have the covered coin on the palm up fingers and lifting the ] off with the forefinger and thumb, when we are talking about one hand handlings..

Using 2 hands there are more options..

In any case, I pass re using a ] in 3 Fly, though I don't doubt some ppl might fancy to use it and get it working well, so my original judgement re a ] wasn't practical in 3 Fly might very well be entirely wrong..

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 2005-01-11 06:28, steve proescher wrote:
George: From the table of contents on Troy's dvds:
Vol 1 has 3Fly 1 and 3Fly 2.
Vol 3 has 3Fly Simplified.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Absolutey correct, but that wasn't the issue of the original question..

The question was if there is shown the use of a shell in Troy Hoosers DVDs during a 3 Fly routine, and there is none used in any of these 3 Fly routines Smile

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
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On 2005-01-11 08:16, Almost-A-Magician wrote:
Correction to Warner Seitz...

Troy Hooser does use a [ for a fantastic routine called ExTroydinary in volume one of his DVD's...it is also covered in his book.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, you are entirely correct, I recall that routine without rewatching his DVD..
He's using a ] and a flipper to display 3 coins..Great routine, still a ] is not used in any of his 3 Fly routines, but I said he didn't use any ] on his DVDs and that was definitley wrong..thanks for pointing it out. Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2005-01-11 08:53, Werner G. Seitz wrote:
...Yes, but I am reasoning -when talking about 3 Fly as a mostly fingertips across

See pages 162-163 in More Magic by Professor Hoffmann for some historical context.

There are several goodies within ten pages of the fingertips ] move in that book as well, including a coin in bottle, a sound maker and ... well you can find them as you read.

Enjoy.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dan Watkins
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Actually,

A shell can be used very well for this effect. Look at Gary Kurtz' "Trio" from "Unexplainable Acts" or "Misty Like a Dream" from his video "Creating Magic".

Even though there are one handed methods to un-nest a shell (for an example see Geoff Latta's contribution to the LVMI DVD), I think the shell's best use for this type of a routine is a clean show at the beginning and end of the routine.

As you setup the fan, steal a coin out of the shell. Make the shell the top rearmost coin in the fan. Just use the shell as an "extra coin" to do a four coin version of the routine. At the end, slip the shell back onto the coin to show three coins clean.
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Werner G. Seitz
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[quote]On 2005-01-11 09:14, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Quote:
... well you can find them as you read.

Enjoy.
Thanx Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Jonathan Townsend
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Some of the newbies may wonder why I cite a book from 1890 on such a "modern" issue. I on the other hand am surprised by how few here express familiarity with the basics to be found in the classic texts of our field. Ordinarily one cites the first known published reference / description of an idea when asked or when the issue arises as to the existence of a technique.

The book was in my high school library, along with Greater Magic and was instrumental in my developing the trick so many of you wish to explore.

I suspect Geoff Latta and most of the well informed coin men have read this book and many others, and so have a much deeper well of ideas to draw from.

The book is available for download from http://www.Lybrary.com along with several other classic works in the field. Remember, reading is fundamental.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Mike Wild
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Werner, I'm in total agreement with Jon and Dan. I OWN a U3F set, but the coins across routine that typically DO is done with shells (two actually, and two normal halves - this allows me to clearly and slowly show two coins in one hand, one coin in the other, and makes the transposition that much more amazing). The sliding shell method looks very 2-dimensional to me... no depth to the fan of coins. Using shells provides, for me anyway, the desired 3-dimensional / real look that I like. There's actually quite a bit that can be done with shells at the fingertips... I was surprised to find out how much I can get away with, and how open the dirty work is without being noticed. All that's required is a light touch and some well rehearsed timing.

Best,

Mike
<><>< SunDragon Magic ><><>

"Question Reality... Create Illusion"
Werner G. Seitz
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@ Mike Wild.
Yes, I just wrote a PM to a friend re 3 Fly and I can post an extraction therefrom re some of my thoughts here:

************************************************
Re 3 Fly, I simply hadn't yet time to even *touch* it at all.
Will take a lot of time to make anything that just barely will live up to my standards.

I aim for a non-gaffed version, though will try out the sliding ] set, as I've gotten it.

Re non-gaffed versions, I solely have seen Denis Behrs as I don't fancy to buy all the DVDs mention out there, from Gregory Wilson and others doing 3 Fly, also I do have his description in Genii.
Troy Hoosers DVDs I have, where he makes fine use of a flipper and even is 2 coins ahead.

Re Denis Behrs version at - at least- on point he does use a kind of Latta's nowhere palm, but I haven't figured out how he gets the coin that fast in place when doing the 3 Fly, but OTOH, I haven't spend any time on it yet to explore
Too much to keep up with.
************************************************
And again, life is too short to do it all, but some stuff is worth to spend time on..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Loz
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I have essentially copied Denis Behr's 3-fly and yes the phase where he gets the coin real fast into that grip is tricky. Took me ages and I'm nearly at his speed. Think 2 steps, first finger palm, then second grip. I recently noticed that David Stone has almost the same handling in the bonus section of vol 2 of his coin magic DVDs.
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2005-01-11 10:33, Loz wrote:
... I recently noticed that David Stone has almost the same handling in the bonus section of vol 2 of his coin magic DVDs.
Hmm, thanx, I do have David Stones 'tape' Vol 2, have to have a peak.. Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
owen.daniel
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Reed McClintock has a version using a shell in his Coin Ovations DVD (called Scream Fly). I personally think that this routine just looks like coins sliding...thats a personaly opinion though.
Owen
phread
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Hi all... first anything from jonathan townsend should be looked into. but for a newby I would suggest looking into paul wilson's "crowded coins" imo his method of getting the second coin over is the easiest I have seen.
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kihei kid
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Quote:
On 2005-01-11 09:41, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Some of the newbies may wonder

Not just the "newbies", me too! As always, thanks for your help JT.
In loving memory of Hughie Thomasson 1952-2007.

You brought something beautiful to this world, you touched my heart, my soul and my life. You will be greatly missed.

Until we meet again “my old friend”.
GeorgeSantos
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Thanks for all the info guys. ExTroydinary for sure uses a shelled coin. Now I know Troy doesn't teach 3 Fly with a ] only and 2 coins.

May I know what volume of the Total Destruction 3 dvd set has routines using ] coin ONLY? I would only like to purchase the dvd where a ] ONLY is mostly used in the routines taught since I don't have a FL*&$er coin yet.
"David Roth is the greatest coin manipulator in the entire world.."

-Dai Vernon "The Professor"


I AM A FILIPINO MAGICIAN
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