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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
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On 2006-01-28 13:21, wsduncan wrote: I have never, not once, seen this pretext (or any other exterior motivation, for that matter) being used in a performance of an ACR. The very best ACRs in the business typically do not use bogus exterior "motivations." Yet the ACR remains one of our most popular plots among audiences and performers. It is, like the T & R, merely an entertaining "challenge" demonstration of supposed kinetic abilities - the power to transform or transport physical matter, etc. Come on, this has been the stock in trade of magicians throughout the ages! Quote:
>causing a spectator to cut to four aces How is restoring a torn card not an example of "fantasy," or even "wish fulfillment?" Resurrection mythology is one of the most common archetypes in world cultures. It's not just about Wile E. Coyote surviving a stick of dynamite! The T & R card plot is certainly not the only area of card magic that relies on our natural proclivity to want to restore order from chaos, and to defy the law of entropy, or even death itself. Far from it, it touches upon our very wish for immortality. Which is why T & R plots continue to incite such great responses from audiences, despite all of the over-theorizing to the contrary. Quote:
>to find a card at any number I can't imagine how you would rationalize that this doesn't also apply to the T & R plot. In fact, it is a much more visual and astonishing "challenge demonstration" of psuedo-kinetic powers. And of course, people wonder if such powers do exist. So your point is....? Quote:
>to levitate Every human being has also imagined what it would be like to be able to magically transform matter. Your point is....? It seems clear to me that you are being really generous and giving the "motivations" behind these other examples a really wide berth, and yet you are arbitrarily denying any such possibilities to the T & R plot. But ultimately, it's like those guys who don't respond to Twisting the Aces. Of course, there is no "exterior motivation" behind why anybody would want or need to turn aces over inside a packet. And if somebody like Ortiz could think of one, it would be irrelevant anyway because nobody has been using it (just as in the example of the ACR). And if you don't respond to Twisting the Aces, or T & R cards, then that's perfectly fine. We all resonate differently with different things. You don't "owe it" to Guy Hollingworth or JC Wagner to like the torn and restored card! But you don't have to come up with an arbitrary, irrelevant theoretical reason why you don't like it. |
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evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts |
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On 2006-02-12 12:01, scorch wrote: Never thought of T & R this way until I read your posting, scorch! Excellent thought. I remembered reading Joseph Campbell in Heros With a Thousand Faces, in which Joseph Campbell remarks that "Myth is the secret opening through which the inexhaustible energies of the cosmos pour into human manifestation..."
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
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On 2006-01-25 14:15, Markymark wrote: Tommy Wonder's ACR, at least the one on his Visions of Wonder DVD, does not use an exterior motivation. It's just performed extremely well. I don't think we need to come up with some silly "reason" for *everything.* Some effects, like T & R effects, a good ACR, or Twisting the Aces, stand on their own merits of a magician accomplishing the impossible in an entertaining way. Other effects require a "reason." I don't like blanket statements. |
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The Doctor Loyal user Gallifrey 265 Posts |
My vote is for Garcia's. Absolutely fried me when I first saw it. A thing of absolute beauty but it does take copious practice.
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evolve629 Inner circle A stack of 3838 Posts |
What is the main difference between Daniel Garcia's Torn and John Lovick's Reparation?
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler |
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MrBiddle Loyal user 239 Posts |
I don't have the DVD of it yet, but I've definitely seen a performance of it- MENTAL TORN AND RESTORED by Mr. Rannie Raymundo...
The performance video is in Putfile... It's mental. It's visual! It's piece by piece! What makes this interesting is that it is a merging of 2 concepts, the first is that which would have been otherwise intangible (the mental aspect) to what can be defined (it's a visual routine!) I guess what makes mentalism so appealing to the people who do it is that it is intangible and "nothing could have went down" so if that can be established and then married with visual magic, then I guess it is something... The Boss's Mental Torn and Restored.
I would, however contest that there is in REALITY very little pportunity to perform what could actually be termed "close-up" magic.
- Guy Hollingworth |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
There are many versions of T and R
Rannie has added a very new concept that is completely different .. this effect the spectator tears the chosen card with their mind and one piece at a time the card is seen to restore itself.. This is a break through concept.... This effect will be featured on LaFamiglia dvd t so to be released look for the banner.... the godfather |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Where is this on putfile? can we see it, pretty please?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
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On 2006-02-12 12:01, scorch wrote: I don't know what to tell you. That's how Darwin presents the Ambitious Card. It's also the subtext of Steve Mayhew's routine. These are two the best card men I know, and both are more entertaining than 95% of the magians I've seen. As I’ve said and written many times its fine if some tricks are done simply because they’re “cool to look at”. But if that’s the only motivation for showing magic to people it really limits what can be done with the art form. I do take issue with your comment about Conrad and the T&R card having a mythic dimension. I just don’t buy it. If you’re trying to evoke that sort of response a playing card is simply the wrong thing to use. Peter Samuelson uses a thread (as does Eugene Burger) to evoke a similar theme. Thread works better as a symbolic reference because it doesn't have a lot of "baggage" associated with it. Unlike playing cards... |
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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
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On 2006-02-13 00:30, wsduncan wrote: Conrad? What's that about? Actually, if anything the "baggage" associated with playing cards argue in favor of mythic resonance, not against it. Royalty and a caste system, duality, the four seasons, love, riches, public vs. private, good vs. evil, the solar and lunar calendars, it's all already there whether you like it or not, and personally I am one for working with it rather than arguing against it. And you still didn't answer any of my questions, but I won't press the matter any further. |
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antwe New user 23 Posts |
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On 2006-02-12 17:50, vinsmagic wrote: I have seen the birth of this effect and through all the effect's evolution. I personally like this effect as it totally gives new light on an old premise. I was able to witness one of its variation which is a personal favorite of mine where the thought of card is the only one that is in a blank deck -- torn and restored! Confusing? Just wait for the DVD....I hope this version gets included in the DVD as well. Pure genius! Vinny, We can't wait to get my hands on that "LaFamiglia" DVD. We are all on the edge of our seats! |
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MrBiddle Loyal user 239 Posts |
Here's my thoughts on mental T and R (it's also posted on FSM)
First of all, I feel so privileged because The Boss has given me his Raytrix and the Mental Torn dvd's. My thank yous can only get redundant and how am I to reciprocate sir RR for being so generous? Anyway, I marvelled at the GENIUS of the presentation, the methods and the handling of THE BOSS's MENTAL TORN AND RESTORED. Why? Because it incorporates a theme or genre that many find so appealing because it is intangible (mentalism) "nothing could have went down" with the genre and themes that always brings out the inner child to those who are otherwise pallid: VISUAL MAGIC. What is interesting is that one of the moves was discovered by The Boss by accident while practicing something. I don't wanna give a hint as to the method here... but anyway it is THAT MOVE that makes this MENTAL routine VISUAL. I am not speaking in sarcastic oxymorons here because with this routine there IS, indeed a marriage of those 2 genres of our arcane art. It is deviously clever and advantageous in a way, because in theory - the psychology of build-up and delaying "reveals" and exposition has always been a favor to the storyteller or the artist during the rendition of the said piece, and in this case (I hope I'm not rambling so much) a full magical routine. Why is there a build-up? Because there is anticipation and maybe some tentativeness as to whether the card the magi will be restoring is indeed the signed selection or not.... of course, the trick done as it should be WILL BE that card, hence the title I can divulge that fact. I will need a lot of practice before I can even perform it, but all great magic takes some work. Sir Rannie, for the millionth time, thank you as I'm still having the euphoria feeling very priviledged that I have been sent this gift from one of the best of the best and most esteemed, and GENIUS practitoners of the arts.
I would, however contest that there is in REALITY very little pportunity to perform what could actually be termed "close-up" magic.
- Guy Hollingworth |
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Sal Amangka Special user Manila, Philippines 712 Posts |
I have seen Rannie performed his Mental Torn & Restored a couple of times in different occasions. This effect has not only baffle the lay audience, it has also baffled magicians as well. Like MrBilldle, I was also give a copy of this wonderful dvd. His handling and presentation are awesome!
I'm not saying this because he is a good friend of mine, but to come out with ideas like that... This guy must be crazy!!! Well, I'm looking forward to the La Familia dvd. Happy Magic! SAL |
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
Vinny, Charlie, Antwe, Sal, and Mr.Biddle, Thanks for your kind words. It has always been my dream to merge something mental and visual. For some strange reasons, I have always been a fan of T&R effects.
Make sure you check out Vinny's Warped and Restored. Its the best of both worlds. From a warped card effect to a T&R all rolled into one. Chris Randall has a cool T&R in his SWEET DVD. gdw, I PMed you , have a look! Rannie Raymundo aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Thanks for the vid, and it is VERY interesting. A VERY different aproach, and one I rather like. I think that this has a LOT of potention outside of the presentation you used too. What you did is great, I can see so much else ALSO being done with this. Some VERY unique work. Even just a straight forward T&R, then the pieces restored one at a time like you do. Or even vanishing them to have them reapear restoring like you do.
VERY nice.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
Thanks gdw! I'm glad you liked it! The video you saw was the maiden performance of MTR. I did'nt have a solid presentation yet at hat time. I just finished working on the moves and videod it for reference at that time.
Take care, Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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skmayhew New user 17 Posts |
Just want to point out to scorch that the A in ACR stands for Ambitious. And the C stands for Card. The exterior motivation for the card coming to the top is that the Card is Ambitious. That's the original motivation for the trick, as well as how it got its name.
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Jon Hackett Special user UK 737 Posts |
I cant see how any restoration can beat Hollingworths REFORMATION some of the most visual magic I have ever seen (an performed ) especially with cards!
Jx
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
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CharlieC Elite user 488 Posts |
The blank deck version of Rannie's effect is not on la famiglia, but will no doubt be featured on a future project. It fooled the hell out of me!
"Whenever he gets in a fix he reaches into his bag of tricks.
Felix the cat, the wonderful, wonderful cat..." |
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MSD921 Special user 616 Posts |
Wait until you see the T&R effect - Oops! in the next edition of Antinomy!!!
There is a simple T&R and a "fold and restore" routine that will be in the February issue which both utilize the unique Oops! cards. The issue will come out with both routines for the Oops! cards AND includes a FREE deck of the Oops! cards. The cards are made by USPCC in red Bicycle backs. They'll be a souvenir that a spectator will never forget. A mismade, inspectable restored card. There will also be the usual other great items in the magazine. Coming later this month..... |
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