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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Beware Of Who You Buy Knowledge From.... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Ron Reid
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Inner circle
Phoenix, Arizona
2731 Posts

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Hi John:

This is a bit off-topic, but I've been thinking about this lately. I have your Fan Club Booklet. Do you think this will still work in today's climate of parents being extra protective of their kids' privacy, etc.?

Thanks.

Ron
Creative Coach
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Anderson, SC
294 Posts

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Off Topic Reply: Yes Ron I do! In fact I have several magic buddies using it to great success. It depends on your approach. You're not corresponding with Little Mikey. You are simply sending Mikey some cool stuff as a fan club member and collecting Mom & Dad's address to market later. At my suggestion one of my friends started a fan club with his daycare program. It's working for him. Adapt and use it.
Ron Reid
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Inner circle
Phoenix, Arizona
2731 Posts

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Thanks for the quick replay, John.

Ron
p.b.jones
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Inner circle
Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
2642 Posts

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My clients are 25-65 yr olds with varying occupations: accountants, graphic designers, professional entertainers, salespeople, corporate executives, personal coaches, entrepreneurs.... why even a college professor! Pretty eclectic list, isn’t it?? However, what they really want does not vary at all. What my clients really want can be broken down into three categories:

1) More Freedom 2) More Money 3) More Fun

Wow! More freedom, more money, more fun.
These are my areas of expertise...

Quoted from John's website


HI,
I still stick with my original view, I wish to improve as a FULL TIME MAGICIAN, by looking at your websites it is clear that you are not you have a second busines in coaching/speaking I am happy for you that you have such skills but it is not personaly where I wish to go. I was not trying to knock your achievments in this or my last post but rather apply your criteria (or at least the parts that I felt mattered) to my requirements. Please understand that I am not a begginer either I have made a very nice living from magic for many years, I do not have an executive wife as you put it, I do agree with your Work Less, Make More! idea and I think that this is where many magic marketing programs fall short.
Phillip
Creative Coach
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Anderson, SC
294 Posts

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Phillip,
I'm in NO WAY asking you or anyone else to hire me! We wouldn't be a good match, I can tell! I'm also not trying to teach you how to be a coach. You are evidently one of those people that think people can only do one thing well. After yrs of performing fulltime I found I wanted to cut back and still make close to a 6 figure income from entertainment. I raised my fees and did that. Am I a fulltime magician? No! I'm a fulltime variety artist! My coaching income is play money for me. I enjoy helping entertainers and entrepreneurs grow their business. Am I a magician? No, I learned a LONG time ago to take "magician" off my title if I truly wanted bigger fees. I don't know how it is in the UK but in the US the term "Magician" is not a term looked on with a lot of respect. Unfortuate, but true!

A well rounded entertainer should be a master of many fields: Magic, Storytelling, Puppetry, Juggling, Music, Comedy, Business, Finance, Marketing.

I'm a multipreneur. I have multiple things I do well. I'm bored just doing one thing.
kenscott
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Inner circle
1869 Posts

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John

I can't juggle but I can do all the other things. Can I be in the club??

All jokes aside I have known John a long time and he has been there done that. John and I often do the same libraries in the summer and his show and mine are completey different yet unique in it own way. AS with all us John has things that he does that I agree with and then there are other things that we don't agree on. Bottom line is I am like a sponge. I think I am a good teacher because I am a good student. I love to listen and learn from others. I enjoy reading getting different insights from Phil, Clive, Billy, John, just to name a few.

Going to back to the topic even from the different programs that are out now you can still gleen informatin from. I buy most of the stuff that is out there. Yes a lot is retalked stuff. In several programs I have learned ways not to do something. I for one am not a beliver in the LONG sales letters. The long letters to schools I have found just don't work. So with that I have learned that the long sales letters are not for me. They could work for someone else I guess.

Bottom line is yes beware of what an from whom you are buying from. But simply ask yourself what are you looking for. It all goes back tot he Magic silver bullet. There is NO course out there that is going to give you instant success with out you working at it. There is no show in a BOX that will get you booked unless you work at it.

Funny thing is if you think about it. Dancers/sport figures have coaches, actors/actress have directors, students have teachers. What do we the magician/entertainer have? Sometimes we need direction we need coaching we need teaching and yet we don't take it because sometimes we think we don't need it. We are in a field where there is always room for improvement ALWAYS.

Best,
Ken Scott
TomBoleware
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Hattiesburg, Ms
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Of course, John is one of the good guys. (I've heard lots of good about him.)

For those who are really wanting to learn, It would probably be cheaper and better in the long run to hire a coach like John.

You know, I don’t think we are ever completely satisfied with any thing we buy in magic. (Maybe if they included a list of places that were waiting on a show. Lol )

But I do enjoy reading the stuff and I learn something from it all.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Creative Coach
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Anderson, SC
294 Posts

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Thanks Ken & Tom. I started this thread to try an give people some insight into some of the junk being sold. Take for example a recent "system" a guy tried to sell me on developing school staff programs. I told him I've done staff programs for yrs and would be glad to look it over with the understanding I wouldn't purchase it unless it was decent. IT WAS HORRIBLE!!! No way would this presentation fly in that venue. But yet it was endorsed by several "Magic Marketeers" Of course it was...they're getting a piece of the pie! This person didn't have a clue! The presentation was horrific!!!

Again, I think coaching is the way to go as it's one-on-one. You have some accountability with a coach. You have someone you can bounce ideas off of. You have someone to brainstorm with. You need a coach with experience. I know several guys out there do not do the shows they claim to do. I know several who look upon new entertainers as fresh meat! I worked with coaches and mentors when I started in the speaking business. I was a born entertainer. I've been entertaining children since I was 12 yrs old. I'm now 48 yrs old. I needed help to grow into a new market. Did I take my entertainment skills along? You Bet!

I now enjoy more freedom, more income and more fun! But it took 20 yrs to get here! I hope this discussion will cause some thought here on the Magic Café. A bulletin board should offer some ideas, reviews & discussion. Are we all going to agree? NO WAY! That's why Baskin-Robbins makes 31 flavors of ice cream.
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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By the way, John did not start this thread with the intention of promoting his coaching business, although I made the fault of chiming in part way through with some advice about who I feel are authentic and fit John's criteria of who to listen to, if I SPECIFICALLY were to buy products. That was my personal opinion, I state in the post.

John didn't mention any magic course / product marketers by name. He let you draw your own conclusions, and suggested a criteria (like it or not) that seemed intelligent.

In making that post that I did, I was intending to point others to seek out all the free advice by the 5 gentlemen I mentioned earlier. And their advice is not just about marketing, but covers other realms of the entertainment field.

I only own a product of one of the 5 individuals, but I do respect them all, and look for their posts and online free articles. Like has been mentioned earlier by others, I love to learn, just like they do. Some of the information shared fits me and my style, and I try it. Some doesn't fit me, and I don't.

- Donald

Quote:
On 2005-01-18 13:14, Creative Coach wrote:

What gives me the right to coach:
Show Director Kingdoms Three Amusement Park
Producing Clown International All Star Circus
Successful Variety Artist for 30+ yrs, 20+ full-time
Columnist for Laughmakers,
Articles in Linking Ring & Funny Paper
Featured in INC Magazines book 301 Marketing Ideas
Multiple presenter at the KidAbra Conference
Educational PEG Chairperson For The National Speakers Association (2 Yrs)


John -

I was thinking about this the other day, and also your comment here about the fact that you are "a REAL professional speaker", like Jim Snack. I assume by that you meant you were certified by the NSA (National Speakers Association), which is what you said earlier on this thread. I respect that. It shows integrity. It shows you work hard to do a good job for your customers.

However, I was wondering if you are also certified to be a coach? I know that some coaches are certified and professionally trained to be a coach, but I didn't see that in your list of qualifications you gave. Do you have the training and certification?

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Creative Coach
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Anderson, SC
294 Posts

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I'm a member of the Graduate School of Coaching since it's inception. I've been a business coach & consultant for 5 yrs. There is much talk over certification now in coaching and speaking. I've always been of the opinion that it doesn't matter how many letters you stuff behind someones name. It's the results that person produces for their clients. Its years of being a fulltime entrepreneur. Its "real world" experience and know how. I personally never look at letters after someones name. I look at their testimonials. I call a few of their clients.

I had a fun time as a member of NSA. I presented several times on the national level. I was the Education PEG Chairperson for NSA for 2 yrs. I have dropped my membership in NSA as I found I outgrew the organzation. The marketplace doesn't care if you're a CSP or not! These organizations are just like the Moose, Elk, IBM..etc. The thing I ask myself now before I join ANY association is: Is this worth my time & money? It got to not be worth my time or money. A person can be a professional speaker w/o joining the NSA. A person can be a coach without joining the ICF or GSC. In the word of speaking, coaching & consulting it's about results. I have a proven track record of results. Ask any of my speaking & consulting/coaching clients.

I'm saying to purchasers out there to go to recognized industry professionals and study their books and advice. But make SURE the person has actually at least done what their selling. In talking to a friend yesterday I found out a certain Magical Marketeer is endorsing a product he's never even seen. Of course, he's receiving 50% of the sales as a commission.

Training is always ongoing. How do you keep up? Being well read. Studying your craft and profession. I read 4-5 books a week. How do you better at this magic business? By understanding it's a business! You need to be an astute business person. You need to know the subjects about which you speak. Don't think you can read one book and go do an educational school show. It will show.

I hope this answers your questions.
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