The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » The meaning of the Little Darlings Column (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
Cheshire Cat
View Profile
Special user
Wilmslow, UK
941 Posts

Profile of Cheshire Cat
As a regular visitor to this column since October 2003 I have personally noticed a shift from general every day entertainer conversation, light-hearted banter etc., to a general sales pitch aimed at promoting ongoing or future projects by individuals. In fact I would suggest openly that some enter here specifically to market their wares. The column has become almost like a bazaar, with people attempting to stand taller, and shout louder than the next salesman.

I'd not wish to be impolite and give names, but to quote from our friend Peter M. of a few weeks ago, "There are fetuses out there writing books these days". There are also people putting forth ideas that would not be worth the paper they were written on in the next US State or British County, as the diversity of Children's Entertainment, Marketing and Markets is so vast. I think it's fair to say that many of us entertainers who work the 'trenches' year in and year out, doing hundreds of functions every year, and having been established for over 25 years, find this present trend quite tedious!

Be it not for me to suggest how the Café is run or structured, but if it were my concern I'd be sending some of these guys my banner advertising rates and giving them the option of either pay to advertise or kindly vacate the premises.

Yours sincerely,

Tony (Cheshire Cat)
rossmacrae
View Profile
Inner circle
Arlington, Virginia
2433 Posts

Profile of rossmacrae
Nonsense.

You have but to look anywhere on the page of recent posts to see dozens of threads discussing every aspect of performing for children.

Promoting one's own $$$ projects is hardly kosher, but defending the same when challenged in a thread discussing child-performer-career-development materials seems reasonable to me.
Andy Wonder
View Profile
Special user
Auckland, New Zealand
747 Posts

Profile of Andy Wonder
Well, there is a fine line here between what is acceptable and what is not. Your argument seems reasonable to me Tony, but I would like to offer my experience as someone who has purchased several items offered by people in this forum.

I’ve purchased items directly from Ken Scott, Quentin Reynolds and Eric Sharp. I’ve also purchased many dealer items based on third party recommendations. In each case I heard about their books videos, etc., from this forum on the café. I’ve been delighted with the items I have purchased and am genuinely glad to have discovered them here. Had these items not been discussed in the café I doubt I would have ended up purchasing them myself.

From a consumers point of view this has been very handy & convenient. I think with this we just have to be prepared to take the smooth with the rough. It might upset some people to read what looks like a sales pitch here but products do tend to stand or fall based on their reputation. Everyone talks to everyone here. I mean many products or videos are openly criticized here as well. Most of us are quite open to sharing our opinions of what we have purchased, good, bad or otherwise.

The other thing is that many of these vendors are also genuinely helpful with their advise they share. It has been said several times that if you read all of Jim Snacks posts you will have read almost the equivalent of his book. I don’t know if Jim has ever really pitched anything here but if he mentions his book or adds a link to it, then why not? I would not begrudge any of these guys the right to do it as long as everything is open & above board.

Where I would draw the line is recommending a product then providing an affiliate link without disclosing you are an affiliate. However as long as they are disclosed I would have no problem with affiliate links in here either.
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
Dennis Michael
View Profile
Inner circle
Southern, NJ
6018 Posts

Profile of Dennis Michael
I would also like to point out that of all the topics on the Café only one section is really devoted towards children, and all the others are focused on close-up, cards, coins, mentalism, etc., etc., etc. Verily little outside this section is for Children Entertainers. That is why I spend a lot of time at KIDabra forum.

Yes, there are areas I like here too, such as stage and illusions. I don't mind Ken Scott's posts, because they are more quality post here from him (as an example). I also read most of Tony's posts because they are quality and good information, as well as Andy's posts.

I spend most of my time in this section, but do venture out occasionally.

A sales product that doesn't interests me I see once.
Dennis Michael
Joseph_Then
View Profile
Special user
744 Posts

Profile of Joseph_Then
Well, if there is a product/book that provides the answers for someone who needs the help, would that be a problem if we talk about it in the forum? Or that someone recommends his product as the solution?

A shift may be good. Depending how you want to see it.
-----



Joseph Then

Singapore Ventriloquist
Chrystal
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada/France
1552 Posts

Profile of Chrystal
Hi,

There is a rule that exists that people are discouraged from marketing their items while others have to pay for banners. The banners are how the Café is able to exist and makes it free for all of us to enjoy!

Not to say that people can't talk about their businesses, new effects or upcoming books, but it wouldn't be fair if they just joined the Café just for that sole purpose without prior contributions. It's different if they have been a member for a while and contributed to post as everyone wishes the best for them. I guess in a way it's like a magician walking into our gig and promoting his service across town.

It's probably a good idea for everyone to reread the rules and regulations (myself included) to see what the stand is on this.

Chrystal
Joseph_Then
View Profile
Special user
744 Posts

Profile of Joseph_Then
I agree with Chrystal, but if we are recommending it as a third party it will be OK.

Of course, if I recommend my own product, it will be a very thin line to draw. But I don't have a product except my shows. Smile
-----



Joseph Then

Singapore Ventriloquist
Emazdad
View Profile
Inner circle
Plymouth UK
1954 Posts

Profile of Emazdad
Same here. Third-party recommendations on books/videos/tricks, etc. is OK. You are passing on information relevant to this forum.

However, to post openly to plug your upcoming book or selection of tricks, DVD, etc., is a tad naughty. You should pay the proper advertising rates to the Café. It's that advertising that finances the Café.

The solution is simple. In the future if anyone openly promotes his own products, the post should be reported and removed and the offender offered the chance to purchase advertising space.

****If another member asks about your products you can give him the information on how to obtain it, as that is a straight reply to a Café question.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
Cheshire Cat
View Profile
Special user
Wilmslow, UK
941 Posts

Profile of Cheshire Cat
Of course I expect severe flack on this posting! It has however, been nice to receive two personal confidential e-mails within just over 12 hours thanking me for making this point.

Tony.
Dennis Michael
View Profile
Inner circle
Southern, NJ
6018 Posts

Profile of Dennis Michael
That plan sounds reasonable and fair.


  • Dealers Can Respond to Questions Related to a Product
  • Dealer can Respond to Reviews of a Product
  • Dealer has a banner, can present his product (one per post)
  • Contributing Member can advise members of a new product, book, website.


These do seem very reasonable.
Dennis Michael
Rupert Bair
View Profile
Inner circle
?
2112 Posts

Profile of Rupert Bair
I agree as well. It's even worse that these so called professionals ask for our advice on the subject when they, are selling a trick or program about it.

Matt
Macbeth
View Profile
Regular user
London
129 Posts

Profile of Macbeth
I agree Matt and you can find some more helpful advise on dealing with dealers in my current book "$$$ for me - how to make money using other peoples ideas!" I accept all forms of credit cards, cash & blank checks.

My other available books are :
"Kids Magic is easy money"
"Kids show in a box" - all you need for a quick success magic show
"no talent neccesary" - one liners That will show how clever/witty/good at magic you are.

:)
glodmagic
View Profile
Special user
USA
501 Posts

Profile of glodmagic
Dennis
As usual you have distilled this nicely.
I hope that your outline is used and applied to both products and services offered by Café members.
Remember ANY of your posts here can be Googled by your customers and Clients. Just entering your name in Google can bring up your negative comments that stay for years!
Starrpower
View Profile
Inner circle
4070 Posts

Profile of Starrpower
I don't think it's out of line to reference a product or link if it's in response to a query. For example, if someone asked about a good children's magic book, and David Ginn responded with a link to "Children Laugh Louder," I think it would be perfectly acceptable. (I don't think Ginn is a member here, I just used that as an example.)

BTW, just for the fun of it I searched all over this site and couldn't find information regarding advertising on the site. It's probably here, but I couldn't find it. It might benefit Steve to have a visible link to banner ad information.
Cheshire Cat
View Profile
Special user
Wilmslow, UK
941 Posts

Profile of Cheshire Cat
Thank you for further PMs received by the way. As requested I will not disclose from whom.

Now did I tell you about my new book that comes out in 10 instalments, each costing $30/£16. The answers to questions are intermingled in the editions so you have to buy the lot!

:dancing:



Tony.
Chrystal
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada/France
1552 Posts

Profile of Chrystal
Hi,

There does exist this message to all those becoming members, it's listed under Café RULES AND ETIQUETTE. You know the one everyone clicks that they have read when they agree to join the Café? This message isn't pointed at anyone by the way, as with the new info age we come across so many things like it, I think human nature dictates that most just press "agree" and don't fully read all the info.

The one regarding marketing is located about half way down the page and pretty much says what I and Dennis stated. It's the third forum listed if anyone wants to reread it.

Chrystal :O)
Dave Scribner
View Profile
Assistant Manager
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
5081 Posts

Profile of Dave Scribner
Starrpower and others, as Chrystal stated, when you registered, you agreed to read and comply with all the rules of the Café. The advertising rules are spelled out in detail there. Here's the link to save you the time of looking for it.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......39&0
Where the magic begins
Chrystal
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada/France
1552 Posts

Profile of Chrystal
What a shame that Tony left as I always enjoyed his post. Lets hope he returns soon.

Chrystal
rossmacrae
View Profile
Inner circle
Arlington, Virginia
2433 Posts

Profile of rossmacrae
For a group of "colleagues" who seem (in other posts) so friendly, EACH AND ALL OF WHOM have been very helpful to me...

YOU GUYS SURE GRIPE A LOT in this thread, and if I were to judge solely from this thread I'd say you were very unhappy with the Café and didn't finmd it useful.

I'd also guess that not a one of you could live if someone overstepped a rule.

STOP IT! JUST STOP IT!

Can't we all get along?
Emazdad
View Profile
Inner circle
Plymouth UK
1954 Posts

Profile of Emazdad
<<<<I were to judge solely from this thread I'd say you were very unhappy with the Café and didn't finmd it useful. >>>>

that's the long and the short of it Ross, it's why Billy, Tony and a few others have left, and I'm seriously considering it.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » The meaning of the Little Darlings Column (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL